Jim & Larry interviews Elliott Rolfe & Chris Lane from the cannabis exclusive UK law firm Mackrell Turner Garrett. They talk about the UK's current cannabis environment and opportunities throughout the world. Larry reviews the Allman Betts Band concert. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/ellicott-rolfe https://podconx.com/guests/chris-lane https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin interviews Elliott Rolfe & Chris Lane from the cannabis exclusive UK law firm Mackrell Turner Garrett. They talk about the UK's current cannabis environment and opportunities throughout the world. Larry reviews the Allman Betts Band concert.
https://podconx.com/guests/ellicott-rolfe
https://podconx.com/guests/chris-lane
https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty
https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Jim Marty: [00:00:34] And welcome to The Dead Cannabis Show, everybody. We're recording live from Las Vegas at the MJ discussion, although this will probably let a few days after it's recorded that we're having a good time here in Las Vegas, having some very good dinners, a lot of good contacts. There's an excess of 30000 people, maybe a thousand or more exhibitors with booths. It's just an amazingly huge event. It's a full mile and a half walk from the hotel, which is the convention center, even though they're connected by a hallway. And just absolutely fascinating. The different Cannabis businesses, you see the extraction machines and things that grind up biomass. And we're lucky enough to have here with us today. Elliot Roles and Chris Lane. Now, Lee is an attorney in Chris Lane is the head of business development for a very prestigious law firm in the U.K. And they're here to talk to us about what's going on, not just in the U.K., but in other parts of the British Empire, where they've been traveling extensively, looking at marijuana and giving a legal and business advice all around the world. We'll start with Elliot here in L.A. and say hi to our crew.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:01:46] Thanks, Jim. has a guy. Yeah. Tell us about what's going on at Mackrell . It's very, very busy at the moment. So we opened the Cannabis Law Department about a year and a half ago.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:01:55] And in that time, we've just got busier and busier and busier. I think we're actually the first and only dedicated Cannabis department in the country still to this day. And because we do that every day, it's our bread and butter.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:02:08] We don't do anything else. It's allowed us to get very close to all of the issues, the industry still coming from us, whereas the u.k.'s is Cannabis program with some considerable weight behind us.
Chris Lane: [00:02:21] Essentially, the concentration and the focus commercially at the moment is in the health and wellness sector with CBD products, anything that's lower than point percent THC. There's been a significant upturn probably over the past 12 months into things like drinks industry, the cosmetics industry. So it's pretty far reaching. We've also, of course, got pharmaceutical side and we'll probably come on to a little bit later asks about the challenges and technicalities of why that's not as accessible, which it is. But it's safe to say we've come a very long way in a very short period of time. At each stage where we're two years down the track with the department, we've had to expand considerably just to keep up the demands of my client base. And it's a client base that's truly international.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:03:02] And it is their cultivation. There is cultivation. There is essentially two different strands. You've got Hemp, which is that has barely any THC and this is where the nonparty percent of your time. And then you've got your full THC to cultivate Hemp. It is difficult to get a license to cultivate tofino full-blown marijuana. It's almost impossible in the UK at the moment. We're hitting a lot of hurdles with Home Office licensing. They're very nervous to actually give these license doubt, but we're getting there slowly and we're seeing. So there's still significant black market improves THC Cannabis. Absolutely. And arguably that's that's really the only place you can get it. I mean, we do actually have an exemption on the law now says medicinal use. The problem is the thousands and thousands of patients that do prescriptions, only a handful. I think it's this little over a hundred now. I've actually been given those prescriptions because of the difficulties in the law.
Jim Marty: [00:03:55] I was really surprised at that number we were talking about the other evening in the population of the UK, including Scotland in Northern Ireland is 65 million for not about only a hundred medical marijuana licenses for 65 million. So that's crazy.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:04:10] It's very frightening, actually. And then ultimately, it comes down to the fact that you have to be on a list of specialist doctors in order to prescribe, but not just one list. You have to be a specialist for that particular ailment. So every patient is waiting for one doctor potentially or a handful, and there just aren't enough to go round. Amazing.
Jim Marty: [00:04:31] And Chris, from a business point of view, business development, point of view, what are the types of things that make a good client for your firm?
Chris Lane: [00:04:39] I've always said I mean, legal services, full staff pays. It shouldn't be a service that you engage. We have to fix a problem that you already have. And we found in this industry because, you know, in main, it's still unregulated in the UK, but there's a lot of people jumping in for a quick buck. Very little repercussions if it goes wrong. A consumer perspective, it's outright dangerous. And some examples. So our ideal clients are people that are prepared to engage at the earliest stage. They're the people willing to invest time, effort, money in ensuring looks from a regulatory perspective. They're as compliant as they can be, but they also teach for business. We're very comprehensive, is a full service firm. So we may have people that come to us with a specific brief and a specific request. But of my role is to ensure the cross-sell capacity of not just our time in London that our international network. Now, in 65, countries can help that business grow. So in a nutshell, the people that we want, nothing serious about growing a credible reputation in the industry.
Jim Marty: [00:05:44] And I believe you told me that you recently made a trip to South Africa.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:05:48] I did. And that list is weird and wonderful as all the other conferences around the world. Obviously, everyone's extremely keen and very excited in South Africa when they've recently had decriminalization mercenaries. And it's very prevalent over there. Very familiar with the plans. Are they getting more comfortable with it? Public perception is getting better and you see that reflected in the businesses. You've got a huge innovation, very much SMG, some say expert.
Jim Marty: [00:06:10] So in South Africa, they have legal cultivation and legal consumption.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:06:15] It's it's tricky. Consumption is, as I say, decriminalized. It's not officially legal. There's no dispensaries. And I see no, it you see it. But they say there are strands of business.
Jim Marty: [00:06:27] Do people come up? And I believe marijuana when you're walking down the street and taxi cab drivers like they do.
Elliott Rolfe: [00:06:34] I certainly did get off it. I was sitting on the beach if I wanted anything. And actually, they were very relaxed about it because it's tolerated. Of the official legal position. No, we don't.
Jim Marty: [00:06:45] So my partner, Larry Mishkin, his firm does some international work. They have an office in Poland, I believe, right, Larry?
Larry Mishkin: [00:06:53] Well, actually, yes. Yeah, we do. We have offices throughout Eastern Europe. We do have one employee. We have an office in the Ukraine. We do have an office now in South Africa. We have offices in South America. Above Hoban law. is really kind of made it a mission of his to expand the scope of the firm's Hemp practice internationally. He's done a very, very good job both through the firm and through the sister company, IHS International Hemp Solutions, which last year I believe was the largest importer of certified Hemp seeds into the country. And so they've been very, very involved with all of this as well. I know Bob was in South Africa recently and this past April, both he and I were in Tel Aviv for the counter-attacked conference there, which drew an international crowd. And I found to be a very, very impressive and very interesting type of event. You know that the structure of it seems familiar to those of us who have gone to conferences in the United States. But it's really something when sitting down to have lunch. And instead of somebody from Arkansas, in Montana, you're talking to somebody from Katara and France or wherever else they're coming from. The lesson that I learned from that is that the Cannabis phenomenon is not unique to the United States, but it's a worldwide phenomenon now. And that really raises the question I wanted to ask you guys, because this is something I don't know a whole lot about.
Larry Mishkin: [00:08:07] What is the history of Cannabis in the United Kingdom? Right, in the United States? We know it's had a very, very chequered history where early part of last century was put on to put in the tax act. And then President Nixon created the Controlled Substances Act. And there was marijuana right at the very top, right along with heroin and LSD. And the biggest problem that we've been running into here, I think, is helping to demystify Cannabis. I live in Illinois right now. We have adult youth and local communities have the right to opt out. So I've got clients who want to locate some of these communities. We have to go and convince the communities that it's OK to do. And the people who get up, the local citizens who get up to object are making arguments that are right out of reefer madness. And that's just a product of the United States government and the war on drugs and the type of messages that they've sent. Is there a similar type of relationship in Great Britain where there's a lot of pressure from the government?
Elliott Rolfe: [00:08:59] I mean, historically, marijuana is going to happen. In the past when it wasn't, the problem is a lot of the country have a very traditional view and our tablets don't help. So you've got a lot of people who would not be impressed with the government if they did just outright legalize. And I think the government's waiting for the right time. And the public perception is an it is a battle constantly. We know that successive governments have demonized marijuana in the U.K. and actually even in light of evidence that marijuana was less harmful than previously thought, they increased the penalties. The last slot, moving it from our class C up to a class B substance. So, yeah, it's this kind of madness, if you like, in that way. And now only slowly is it coming down because these therapeutic benefits are being recognized.
Jim Marty: [00:09:44] And to help us here in the United States understand your rules. What is between class B and class?
Elliott Rolfe: [00:09:49] Oh, absolutely. So let's start with class. These are my sisters. This is the most restrictive class do you like? The class system is essentially aligning with penalties. So the class a drugs of those that are considered worst and have the most severe penalties for possession of supply. Cosby unless seven class scene goes on so false. So for example, in a couple of examples of class B classes at the moment in Cosby, he's got Cannabis. I think Katzman is probably a class B substance nomen cocaine and the cocaine is class A ecstasies complex, A policy, LSD cogsci. So, you know, they move around and things like that. He's apparently in, you know, the things that you might get prescribed. They are usually found or around sort of class C, but they do. A bit of pressure from the press or some other reason they'll jump up and they will determine that stiffer penalties are required. So to see Cannabis go from a classy up to a class B is absurd, at least in this day and age.
Jim Marty: [00:10:46] In your first contact with the authorities usually starts with the police for simple possession. Do people go to jail in the UK for possession of marijuana?
Elliott Rolfe: [00:10:56] I would like to think that that hasn't happened for a long time. The police are using their discretion very well and a lot of places some police forces asked the police to come out and said it's just not in the public interest for them to be putting people away for cannabis possession. But it happens, you know, when you do see young lives grow into certain circumstances increases.
Jim Marty: [00:11:16] We come to the end of the segment with the comments. Would you like to meet to a US audience some of your takeaways from your travels to the United States and Cannabis me now?
Chris Lane: [00:11:25] Our approach to here and to take a step back the way in which we started our journey in the UK was actually to engage with one of the original founders of an international network of lawyers called Macro International, and we were lucky enough to be invited over to the US about a year ago now, actually, and we were taken throughout our U.S. partner firms to a number of broker services and dispensaries here in Nevada and also in Colorado. And we were so hugely impressed by what we wanted to do is go back to the UK and essentially get ahead of the curve, hence us setting up the first ever department. So we were poised and ready for an industry that was only just starting to wake up in the UK, roll the clock for which two years to where we are now. And I've had very credible discussions this week. MJ This column about inward investment by major US corporations to the UK market, which is a very exciting prospect for us. But there are six or eight it seems on Alan, that the regulatory awareness and the level of guidance and how comprehensive it is. Ultimately, if a US firm was set up in the UK where the people that can help you.
Jim Marty: [00:12:38] There does seem to be a global phenomenon. You know, here is the last Vegas convention. There are people here from all over the world. A gentleman from Switzerland has a company here in Las Vegas, and his background is in the pharmaceutical industry. And he's running a very large cultivation and production business here in Las Vegas. He moved here from Swinton's Switzerland to run this company here in Las Vegas. So, yeah, the global global footprint is all over this. Well, thanks again, guys.
Larry Mishkin: [00:13:07] We forgot to ask him the most important question of all, whether or not you guys have any familiarity with the Grateful Dead. Do you have any experiences over having seen them or listening to them? I know that they've played any role. They used to play in England along with the rest of the country when they go to their European tours. So have you ever seen them?
Chris Lane: [00:13:24] I think so. Actually, I haven't. Looking forward to listening to them. I'm not about to cut this exposure on the metric.
Jim Marty: [00:13:32] We like to mix in musical stories with the show. And there's a story of one of your countrymen, Elvis Costello. Yeah, you guys fans of Stella. As a young man, I guess he was in high school in 1972. He attended one of the Grateful Dead concerts. It was an outdoor concert. I believe it was May of 72 was Grateful Dead's first year. Well, maybe not the first or but their European tour of 72.
Jim Marty: [00:13:58] And somewhere there's a picture. Sure. Elvis Costello has a picture of the crowd and the stage and his circle. He said, that's me written on the written on the thing. He was heavily influenced by the Grateful Dead. And he's had a long and prosperous careers as a musician. Larry, I have not been doing a lot of musically. I'm looking forward to see two dead and company shows with John Mayer at the end of this month. But you've been kind of active musically. What's going on with you as far as the some shows?
Dan Humiston: [00:14:29] I want to take a quick break to thank you for listening to today's show as the leading Cannabis podcast network. We're constantly adding new Cannabis podcasts to support our industry's growth, and that's why we're so excited to announce our newest podcast, The Cannabis Breakout. The show's about the thousands of Americans who remain in prison for violating Cannabis laws that have long since been overturned. The Cannabis breakout gives Cannabis political prisoners a voice. If you're a former Cannabis prisoner or have a loved one who is a Cannabis prisoner, we want to hear your story. Please go to MJBulls.com and sign up to be a guest.
Larry Mishkin: [00:15:10] Sure. Well, you know, on the last show I mentioned my recent trip out to San Francisco to celebrate with a good buddy of mine out there. The 20th anniversary of the founding of his company. And that was on Thursday night. And because you can never go to San Francisco without seeing a lot of great music on Saturday night, a whole group of us that we're out there all got tickets and we went over to the Fillmore and we saw the Allman batz River. All banned.
Larry Mishkin: [00:15:34] Now, this is a band made up of Devin Solomon, who's Greg's son, Dwayne Betts, who's Dicky, that's the son and very openly junior, who, as you can imagine, is very Oakley's son. And they've got other musicians with them. And they come out and they do a very, very, very respectable versions of most of the Allman Brothers music really played it well. But it was it was really a lot of fun because they had a number of special guests who came out and played with them. One of them was Luther Dickinson from the North Mississippi Allstars, which is one of my favorite bands. And Luther was out there for a while and he did an amazing job. They brought Robert Randolph out on stage and he played the pedal steel guitar for a little while. And then the amazing job with that. And then just as kind of a nod, I guess, the irony and the 1970s, they trotted out this guy who looked very, very familiar. But I couldn't quite place his face until they announced him. And it was Robin Zandra, the lead singer for Cheap Trick. And then they wanted to do a couple of cheap trick songs, which took me back to my high school days. It was really, really an amazing thing. First of all, here is Live Allman and that's blood up on the stage. This is the real deal. These are the guys. They got a lot of great stories, as you can imagine. The music is really a lot of fun.
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:43] They're taking the show on the road and I would highly recommend it to anybody who would like to see it. It's just a fun night of music. There's something very, very special about seeing a musical show, any musical show in the Fillmore Auditorium that that may have been ground zero for the Grateful Dead and some of the some of the greatest music came out of the Fillmore Auditorium. And when you're in there, the pictures that are all over the wall and the posters are an event in and of themselves. You could spend hours just walking along and looking at everything. And they've got huge pictures of Jerry as the kind of the centerpiece to everything that's going on. And the joke I have with my friends is, you know, there were so many great things that happened in that building. You can probably lick the walls and start tripping. It's quite a place. And I was a little bit skeptical. You know, to go see the kids of the band. But I'm much like Phil lushes sides have, you know, joined him in the Territory Cross-roads Band and done a marvelous job. These guys came out. They really killed it. I couldn't have been more impressed. It was just tremendous. Music what good jams in there? That's another band that I highly recommend besides pole dancing. If you have an opportunity to see all of it, that's revival. It's a show worth checking up.
Jim Marty: [00:17:55] That sounds great. What are some of the songs?
Larry Mishkin: [00:17:57] Oh, do you think you want? They played Elizabeth Reid. They played just before they played south. They played one way out. The only signs we kept waiting for all night that they didn't play was whipping post. You know, I can't tell them too much grief about the actors. They played so many other just great home tunes and really good traditional rock tunes. And just to see all the talent that was out there with a Luther Dickinson, I think is one of the great guitar players around. He's just got a tremendous amount of energy and he was bouncing around and having a good time. Robert Randolph really took over the stage for a while with his pedal steel that he does. It's just a nail. At one point, they actually brought out three guitar players, the two guys in Thurl and I say, girl, because none of them could have been older than 14 or 15 years old. Maybe Allman made a big point to say, here's the next generation. And and these kids came out. And Jim, I got to tell you, they played the guitar like you and I can only dream of ever playing a guitar.
Larry Mishkin: [00:18:51] And that was that they had stage presence.
Larry Mishkin: [00:18:53] They were away. They each took turns stepping out in front. And there was there was just incredible to see these little people making this huge, amazing guitar sound.
Larry Mishkin: [00:19:03] It was very, very cool with these kids of the band members.
Jim Marty: [00:19:07] I don't think that they were directly related to the band members. We never were quite sure about that. But somehow they have a connection one way or another that they're known to the band. And my sense is this is not the first time they've done it. It was a little too polished really just to see this probably 15 or 16 year old girls standing there and shredding an electric guitar like this. Unbelievable. She was that good? It was really, really great. The other two guys were really good. And what I really liked about them is when they were doing their jams, they have it all down in the facial contortions and the bloods and the this. And boy, they were they were just cranking out music. That was a pleasure to hear.
Jim Marty: [00:19:42] Well, one musical note here from Las Vegas, I heard on the radio today that foreigners going to do a two week residency here in January.
Larry Mishkin: [00:19:50] Yes, there's been a lot of bands. Arrowsmith just did went out there last year and other bands had been doing that. That's the big thing. If you were a 70s big hair band, you can now go do a residency in Las Vegas.
Jim Marty: [00:20:01] Yeah, play in a pack them in here in Las Vegas. It's good for these aging rock stars to be able to have a place to play their music. And what a legacy to have the second generation of the Allman Brothers. The last time I saw the Allman Brothers was a jazz fest shortly before Greg passed away with Warren Haynes in lead. That was one great memory. Final memory of the Allman Brothers playing Warren.
Larry Mishkin: [00:20:27] They had Warren and their trucks playing guitar for them the last couple of years. Yeah, I saw a few of their. The plane will run at the Beacon Theater.
Larry Mishkin: [00:20:36] My brother, who lives out there, was able to get some tickets and I went up there with him to see a show or two. Look, we can all agree that without Duane Allman, it's just not the same. But I would suggest that there's very few people alive other than Derek Trucks who are truly capable of channeling Blaine all the way that he does. And of course, with the war and in his voice and his singing and it all really kind of taken over a lot of that. It was a different arm and walk, kind of like saying, I'm going to see John Mayer played lead guitar for Dudding Company. Great show, great musicians. Maybe not quite the same as the original guys, but good enough that nobody is complaining.
Jim Marty: [00:21:09] Well, listen, we're coming to the end of our time slot, solar plant, a couple of seats for our next show. We didn't get a chance to talk about Missouri. The next time we have the show, you might actually know who some of the award license award winners are in Missouri. Michigan went adult this last week with still no don't use dispensaries available in Michigan. You go.
Larry Mishkin: [00:21:30] I just want to I just want to tease one thing for our listeners. We're going to arrange sometime in the next couple of weeks to have a very, very special guest on our show. And that just as a gentleman named Jay Blake spurred, Jay lives out in the San Francisco area and he's the official photographer for the Dads for Fish Brain, one of a number of rock and roll bands. And again, my good friend Andy Greenberg from society, Jane, who was on our show a few weeks ago. She's very friendly with him. He lives right around the corner from her. And when I was out there, I had an opportunity to go by and meet him. I see his studio and I'll save the stories for the next show. But it really was like the Deadheads dream. What they've got going on in there and the music and the everything. And Jay was trained enough to indicate that he would be more than happy to come on our show and be a guest. So for our listeners, stay tuned for that because we're going to get Jay in and worried about the inside workings of the Grateful Dead.
Jim Marty: [00:22:22] Well, that's a great tease for the next show, Larry. Thanks again.
Larry Mishkin: [00:22:26] So Jim Maadi here saying over and out until next time, Larry Mishkin from Hoban law. Group saying goodbye, Jim and everybody have fun in Las Vegas.
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