The Grateful Dead's photographer, Jay Blakesberg shares stories about being on the road photographing The Grateful Dead and other iconic rock legends. He joins Jim and Larry to talk about his latest book - Jerry Garcia "Secret Space Of Dreams". Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt https://www.rockoutbooks.com/collections/frontpage/products/jerry-garcia-secret-space-of-dreams Photo Courtesy of Jay Blakesberg Photgraphy
The Grateful Dead's photographer, Jay Blakesberg shares stories about being on the road photographing The Grateful Dead and other iconic rock legends. He joins Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin to talk about his latest book - Jerry Garcia "Secret Space Of Dreams".
https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg
https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty
https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
https://www.rockoutbooks.com/collections/frontpage/products/jerry-garcia-secret-space-of-dreams
Photo Courtesy of Jay Blakesberg Photgraphy
Jim Marty: [00:00:36] Hello and welcome to the Dead Head. Cannabis show, everybody. Jim Maadi here for a change.
Jim Marty: [00:00:41] I'm face to face with my partner Larry Myshkin here. We're at the Hoban law. offices in Denver, Colorado. They do it, Larry.
Larry Mishkin: [00:00:49] I'm doing just fine. Jim, always a pleasure to see you and to be in Colorado. Thanks to Bob and the gang here for giving us some massive space, allowing us to tape the podcast today. We got to get him on one of these days. He was just plain in the sand and somebody some good reviews about it. It's nice to get out in Colorado and kind of be at the heart of where things are.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:07] And I had a chance to see everybody out here.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:10] We've kind of tease this before on some of our prior projects, but today's a really special show for us. And whereas a lot of our guests up to this point primarily been people involved in marijuana industry, all very good guests. We do have a second side of our show that, of course, the Grateful Dead component of it. And today we are very, very lucky to have with us on the show a gentleman named Jay Blake. For Jay is, among other things. The official photographer for the dead works with other jam bands, is probably as close in tight into the scene as anybody. And we're just thrilled to have him. Jay. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:01:45] Thank you for having me. And I also just got back from playing in the sand.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:50] Oh, OK. So there is no nuts. I heard from Jim and now I'm hearing it from you. Was it as good as my partner told me it was?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:01:56] Yeah, it was super fun. New resort to new new venue to S.I.D. You know, trying to figure it all out. But they are incredible hosts.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:02:07] Our friends at S.I.D. Entertainment and S.I.D. PRESENTS, they really, really know how to take care of their customers. They're there, you know, because everybody playing the fan is a VIP. And they take really good care of us and they make sure that we have everything that we need. Everybody has a lot of fun down at playing in the sand. So I've only AVAC for three days now. I guess this is day three back into as they as the kids say I R L in real life, we've left fantasy land of Cancun.
Jim Marty: [00:02:38] All right. musical high points of playing in the sand.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:02:42] There were actually many musical high points of playing in the sand. They played really solidly. All three nights there was a great help slip St. Steve in. I think they ended out the show later that night with the Franklins. They sort of did a little book and where they opened up the first night with a not fade away. And they finished the last verse of Not Fade Away as the Oncor the last night. You know, they played lots of great songs on the setlist were great. You know, we got our scarlet fires and our China writers and our Uncle John's band and we'll and know thanks to even the eleven, etc, etc.. So it was interesting. No, no. Broke down, no Jack Straw, no sugar mag, but solid, solid, solid all the way through. John was in a great mood. Bob was in a great mood. It was very, very windy. The first couple days that we were all down there. First show was incredibly windy. Second show was very windy, even not incredibly windy. And then the third show with the kind of wind finally died down. And we got a little bit of a breather from that intense, you know, 20 mile an hour wind constantly blowing. It was great because it was blowing Bob's hair and it made him look like Moses, you know, getting ready. Throw the tablet down to the masses below.
Jim Marty: [00:03:59] Now, did that win? That's what the sounds.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:04:02] You know, I did hear from people out there that it did depend on if you were if you were closer to the ocean, it messed with it a little bit more than if you were in closer to the to the dunes.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:04:13] But, you know, most of my sound experiences coming right off of everything on the stage. So I hear it differently than most people. So I can't speak to that firsthand that it was swirling around. But I actually did touch the sound man a little bit about that. I think he told me that, yes, it does swirl a little bit, but it's pretty powerful system and it's kind of tries to cut through it and make it all work.
Larry Mishkin: [00:04:37] So let's let's turn the clock back a minute here, because one of the things that Jim and I always like to explore with people is what got them into the dead.
Larry Mishkin: [00:04:44] When did they first get into the dead? And I know from having spoken with you previously that you made your way into the dead world through a show that has a pretty special place for a lot of Deadheads out there. That was the English town show in 1977.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:04:56] That is correct. You know, you typically get turned on to music at that age. I was fifteen by an older brother or sister, a neighbor, a friend who might be a year or two older. And you sort of gravitate towards, you know, what they're listening to. But they also truly believe that most Deadheads and jam band fans are kind of born with this little strand of psychedelic DNA that's sort of predisposed us to like wanting to have that kind of experience musically and culturally and and, you know, with other like minded weirdos. And also in the 1970s when we were. Teenagers. I mean, we pretty much live for sex, drugs and rock and roll and, you know, the Grateful Dead seem sort of fit the bill. So it was a good you know, it was a good thing to look forward to that experience. And, you know, you you pretty much had your drugs and, you know, the rock and roll was in front of you. If you bought a $7 ticket and you hoped and prayed that you would get some sex. But you know, that that's you know, it was a pretty simple mentality. You know, we didn't have the Internet to teach us how to live our lives back then. We had to figure it out on our own. But, yes, you know, I had an older sister and I was 15 and she was 17. And she took me to English Town. And it was the first Grateful Dead concert for many, many East Coast Deadheads or, you know, Northeast Deadheads and a hundred thousand plus people and one hundred and five degrees and contain now is a dick pics.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:06:26] I believe it's number fifteen. Is that correct? And truly, truly, truly one of the most epic shows. I mean, you know, there were so many great. So much so many great moments in 77. And this is obviously later than the highlight of the May 77 year. But, you know, back in October. So one of the reasons we're on this podcast right now is because also I have a new book that just came out in the fall called Jerry Garcia Secret Space of Dreams. And when I was in New York in the fall doing some promo for that with serious X, and they let me do like a little J. Blacksburg guest deejay. And I told stories about specific shows and the photos that were in the book. And I played music and I said to them and I close out my show with the He's gone. Not Fade Away from English town and the the audio tech for the grateful. That and great guy named Andrew Brass, you know, pulled it up in their system and looked at and said, you know, it's 40 minutes long. And I said, I do know it's 40 minutes long. And it's truly a legendary. He's gone, not fade away. And the jam in between those two songs is just next level. Goose bumps here on Raised on the back of your neck. Got it. Got it. Gotta just groove to that. It's just truly, truly remarkable. So, yeah. English down. Boom. Done. Fifteen lifechanging.
Larry Mishkin: [00:07:48] Did you take pictures at that show? Now, I did not.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:07:51] I was I think there was an Instamatic somewhere in our camp because there's a picture of me sleeping on the ground during the day in the 100 degree heat with a bong on my job.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:08:02] The only known photo of meeting was down.
Jim Marty: [00:08:05] So, yes, more un-English town. Certainly I've listed in its show many times. And you know, seventy-seven is a standout year for the Grateful Dead. And a lot of people say it's one of Jerry's best years, if not his best year. But some of the things that you hear about in this town was that it just jammed up the roads for miles around. They were not set up for 100000 people. They weren't even set up for half that amount. And so people had to walk for miles and miles to get to the show. Can you fill us in with some of your first experience?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:08:34] Well, I mean, I was 15 and that would be, you know, four score to score, I guess, a score 20 years. I know we parked and then we walked in there. There were people selling parking spots in their driveways. I know it was. I know that probably every single ounce of beer in the convenience stores in that town was sold out. I know we got in early. I know we got a spot that was not too close, but not too far. I think we were, you know, before any of the delay towers. And so, you know, maybe a hundred feet back or something. I didn't really know a lot of the grateful that repertoire at that point. I mean, I certainly knew when trucking was going on that, you know, that was that was a hit song. The new hit song by the band The Grateful Dead Truck Truckin Off the Record, American Beauty. But it was also a live radio broadcast on WCW, which was, you know, the big New York Jets station at the time. So that tape, that soundboard tape circulated for many years before it became a Dick's Tech. And the one thing about it is, is that they cut the broadcast before the on-court, which was terrible. So nobody really heard the Oncor. I mean, if you a taper and had an audience version of that, put the soundboard tape off the radio. And, you know, back in those days, everybody would, you know, tape live concerts off the radio because that stuff was rare. Right. And so I have that tape and I wore it out over and over and, you know, would get new copies. And I feel like I had like a like a master copy that I never played. And then when the other one wore out, I'd go back to that one and make another copy and just kind of did that for a couple of decades until it finally showed up. But, yeah. And just one of those moments.
Jim Marty: [00:10:23] Let's talk about your new book. This is not your first book, I believe. What number is this?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:10:29] Jerry Garcia, Secret Space of Dreams is. Bickley, my 15th coffee table book.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:10:38] Wow, my music photography, I've done books on the Grateful Dead and I've done books on the band Primus and The Flaming Lips and Mother Hips and did a book for a guitar manufacturer. And I've done multiple books for the Lock and Music Festival. And those books are compilation books. You know, the the lock and books, there's three of them for the first six years. But, you know, 80 percent of the photos in each one of those books are mine. So consider them my books. So, yeah, I've done I've done a number of books on a number of different artists and compilations, did a book called Jam. I did a book called Guitars The Jam. I did a book called Hippie Chick. I did a book called Eyes of the World. I did fairly well, which was, you know, a book that came out after those final fairly well shows and just represents those five shows. I like making books and I self-published them all.
Larry Mishkin: [00:11:31] So when I when I was visiting you recently, I think you told me that on your system, you store somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 billion images. Is that correct?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:11:41] Yeah, I think it's a little bit more than that. Maybe another hundred and fifty or two hundred thousand.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:11:45] I think we're up to you now, but yeah, somewhere around that. Just over 1.5 million. A lot of data. It's a lot of data. Be responsible for. And it's just you know, it really is, you know, one of those things that you just gotta, you know, handle with care and treat it like a precious.
Larry Mishkin: [00:12:03] Would you want to do a book, though? How do you decide which of those 1.5 million? I mean, obviously, you promote with a theme and you look for pictures that fit the theme, right?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:12:11] Well, you know, you're doing a book on Jerry Garcia. You don't have 1.5 million photos to look through.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:12:15] You know, you might have 2000 photos that have Jerry in it that you're looking through and you do. What you do is you look at every single one of them. You know, when I did my book on Hippie Chick, which is a book about women and their connection to light music, you know, I saw I would go through everything I could remember where there were pictures of fans in the audience throughout the field or whatever. So, you know, you start with your start with your music festivals that you've been to. And you know what? You might have shot at those festivals and then you go like, oh, yeah, I remember that. Well, shall I take it that girl raging on the rail at widespread panic at the Fox back in 2009. And then you go down that rabbit hole that takes you a half a day and then it takes you to the next rabbit all and eventually have to go ask Alice where you are. And, you know, you come up with a few thousand photos and then you just start narrowing them down and you give to your designer and you let your designer make choices, you know? You say here, I've got these five photos and I think anyone can work on the page. And then they put in their two cents. And it's a collaborative thing. But yes, you start with, you know, how many thousands of photos, I mean, with fairly well, it was a five show run plus a rehearsal, plus a few other little things. You know, we went through all the photos. You know, there was probably twenty thousand pictures to go through. And but you're looking for the best of the best.
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Jim Marty: [00:14:22] So a question on how you were able to make such a long and successful career out of this between 1977, your first show. When was it that you were able to cut Cord to become a full time rock and roll photographer? Did you ever have a day job?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:14:41] Yes, I did have a day job. I think my last day job was in the late 1980s. So I I first photographed the Grateful Dead in 1978. I first got paid money for my photography in September of 1979. I was paid seven dollars and fifty cents a piece for two photos, $15 total for two photos of the Grateful Dead that ran in a review of the Grateful Dead at Madison Square Garden from the January 79 shows. And though I was 17 years old, I didn't really start making money as a photographer until I moved to the Bay Area. And I'm going to say that was around eighty five or eighty six that I started making just a little tiny bit of money. But, you know, we're talking about my you know, I think I still had a job in 86 or worked at a small video production company doing corporate type training videos and stuff like that.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:15:37] I believe, as I believe it was in 87 that I actually cut the cord and quit my job and became a freelance photographer. And I feel like my first year as a photographer, I made about nine thousand dollars. That's not what I made. That's what I grossed. You know, I had expenses out of that. So I was what you would typically call a starving artist. You know, I lived in a big house in Oakland with six or seven roommates and rent was one hundred and thirty five dollars a month.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:16:05] And, you know, we put in $10 a month a week each for food and we eat communally. And I took every single little shitty, crappy two bit job that paid $100 or $200 or anything anybody wanted to give me to take pictures. And I just kept doing that. But I think that the biggest my biggest driving factor was fear. I didn't know any other thing that I could do in my life. But, you know, I wasn't the kind of guy that was gonna go back and become a lawyer or an accountant like my father and my brother or, you know, or anything like that. I all I knew how to do was photography. And so I worked my ass off because I didn't want to have any other kind of job. And, you know, it was also, you know, out of prison at that point, just for a couple of years, I was in jail and in 1983 for possession of LSD with intent to distribute. And I knew I didn't want to go back to jail. And so, you know, selling drugs wasn't an option. You know, now you guys all sell drugs, legally released pot, you know. But, you know, back then, you know, even that could put you in jail for 10 or 15 years. And so, you know, I worked as hard as I possibly could and started showing my photography to different magazines and record companies in 87. I got my first assignment from Rolling Stone magazine. Shooting the free U2 concert in downtown San Francisco. You can see it in Rattle and Hum the movie. And you know, since then, I've done over 300 afine that's for Rolling Stone magazine and started getting work probably by eighty eight eighty nine.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:17:42] I was shooting for Band magazine, which was a Bay Area music magazine, started shooting covers for them I think in 89. My first one was Camper van Beethoven down in Santa Cruz, started getting assignments from Guitar Player magazine. I think I shot my first cover in nineteen eighty nine or ninety. That was with Michael Hedgies, the late great Michael Edges.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:18:05] So I was just I was a working photojournalist. And by you know also at that time the late 80s, eighty 88, 89, 90 was the birth of alternative rock. And you know, I couldn't make a living just shooting the Grateful Dead because the mainstream media really didn't care about the Grateful Dead. Yeah. They cared a little bit about such a grave for a minute.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:18:25] And I got an assignment here from Rolling Stone and an assignment there that revolved around the Grateful Dead. But I mean, in general, I was out there shooting bands like Soundgarden and and Jane's Addiction and the Pixies and Nirvana and stuff like that, because those are the bands that magazines were interested in pictures of. And that would actually pay me money.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:18:50] So that was sort of the beginning of my career.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:18:53] You know, it really, really started in 86 and 87 in terms of getting a lot more assignments and getting people to pay me, you know, instead of $200, $400 or $500 to shoot something and, you know, buy by the, you know, mid 90s, I was shooting a lot of, you know, big advertising jobs and some corporate stuff and dot.com stuff here in the Bay Area that was exploding. And, you know, some people are starting to. You two thousand dollars a day and five thousand dollars a day and ten thousand dollars a day. And that stuff doesn't really exist anymore. Like that whole that whole business sort of disappeared for a number of reasons. But, you know, let's just say that, you know, technology is the great disruptor. And, you know, technology is disruptive.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:19:38] You know, the photography, film and music business probably more than any other industry. Obviously, while computers and whatnot. But, you know, and so, you know, everybody has a camera in their pocket. And we live in a world of mediocrity created by social media. And so if somebody can pay somebody $200 for a crappy photo instead of paying somebody $2000 for a really good photo, they might just settle for that crappy photo for 200 bucks. So it sort of decimated an industry.
Jim Marty: [00:20:05] So, you know, I appreciate your comment on the fear factor as somebody who's been self-employed since I was 26. Fear was always a great motivator for me because I also never wanted to be a corporate account. You worked for a big accounting firm, but I'm sort of a personal question. Did you wear earplugs and how is your hearing today being that close to all those speakers in the early days?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:20:28] I did not. I definitely damage my hearing. I can actually pinpoint the exact show. I start a band called Living Color. Vernon Reid, whose app was, you know, turned out to 24 right in front of his app for a whole show at the IBM, which was a really funky alternative rock nightclub on Haight Street in San Francisco. And right in the Haight Ashbury and my years were raining for about six days after that. I have worn earplugs. On and off over the years, since then, for many, many years, mostly on. And that's because I was aware of the fact that I was ruining my hearing. And I was. And I was up close to a lot of these artists. But, you know, you have bands like Dead and CO today and their technology and their sound system, which is, you know, Maya sound speakers and ultrasound. You know, it's funny, back in the days of the Grateful Dead, like you could be at a dead show and the volume was absolutely perfect standing in front of their stack stack of speakers, which again were Maya sound speakers and ultrasound speakers. And you could probably even talk to the person next to you. But you weren't like talking, saying the music's not loud enough. It was perfect. But they knew how to control it and the technology that the speakers had achieved. And I really don't you know, I go to a lot of concerts and I listen a lot of stuff.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:21:48] And I truly believe that, you know, Maya, sound systems are the best sounding sound systems because you can be in front of a Maya sound system and you can listen without ear plugs right in front of those speakers and it's still pushing up.
Jim Marty: [00:22:03] A high enough volume was not right in front of the speakers that I did see the shows on Dec. 20, 1728 at the L.A. forum. And that sound was as absolutely pristine sound.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:22:14] Yeah. I mean, you know, the Grateful Dead, I've been using Maya speakers for decades and and they know how to use them. You know, their sound guy, Derek Featherstone, is incredible. So anyway, you know, like, I remember being at a music festival and they did not have a Maya sound system and they were just pushing it out. It was so loud that it was punishing for everybody that was in the front because they felt like that to push it so hard and so loud for it to reach the back of a festival. And it's just like anybody that was in the first one hundred feet literally was being punished, like, you know, a sledgehammer to the forehead loud anyway. But now my hearing is my hearing is, you know, it's been it's been touched, it's been compromised. But I still think that I'm OK. I have a hard time and like loud rooms and a lot of people chattering and, you know, different situations.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:23:02] If I'm not facing somebody or some of these, you know, talk like standing in front of me and we're walking in there talking, facing forward, I might not be able to hear them, things like that.
Larry Mishkin: [00:23:11] jay, what what opened the door for you to really get into the role that, you know, accurately have with the dead? When did that happen where you tried to frame the family as well?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:23:22] I mean, I really didn't start really working for the band until, you know, the till the end of the Grateful Dead. I mean, the first time that a Grateful Dead band member paid me money to photograph them was in 1990.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:23:35] I did some portraits of Bob. We are Rob Wasserman because that's when they were first forming the We Were Wasserman duo.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:23:43] And so I start and I was working with Rob Wasserman, who was making a couple of different records. I think he was work at trios at the time. And when we are said, let's start this little acoustic duo thing. Bob and Rob Wasserman, the manager, said, hey, Jay Glazebrook could do the publicity photos and they were like Joe. And so right after that, you know, then Bob needed the photo for a children's book they wrote with his sister. You author photo? I did that. He did a second children's book with his sister. I did an author photo for that.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:24:12] You know, so I just started doing a lot of stuff with Bob and then eventually connected with Mickey's people. And Mickey was working on a planet drum type thing with Bob, all the 10G and Zakir and Giovani and Avago and Armando Peraza. And so Mickey hired me for that. But it really wasn't until post Jerry that I got hired by the guys in fish when they were doing a run with Phil at the Warfield, when it was still in France with Trey and Paige. All right. And and and that's when I really met Phil and became friends with Phil and started doing all work with Phil. And then I was doing all this work with Bob. And then, you know, they did the other ones and they needed a publicity photo and they called me.
Larry Mishkin: [00:24:52] Was that we still first came back after his surgery.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:24:55] I don't remember if it was it was in April of 99. I don't actually remember if that was right after that or what's the timeline on, you know, versus his his liver transplant. But.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:25:07] But anyway. Yeah. So, you know, and then when you know, when the core four guys, you know, Bob, Billy, Mickey, Bobby, Phil would get together, you know, Grateful Dead Productions would hire me because I was a professional photographer, you know, and a lot of people that came and went through that camp, you know, maybe they said they were professional photographers and maybe they had a real camera, but they didn't. How did you studio lighting that and do studio portraiture? I mean, the guy that did that for the Grateful Dead for the longest time was Herbie Green. And Herbie had moved to the East Coast. And so, you know, it wasn't like you're going to fly and Herbie to do a shot of, you know, the other ones or further Phil and friends or, you know, whatever it might be, seven walkers. And I just sort of became the default guy because I was still there. You know, it's funny. I did an interview earlier today with Big Steve. Harris for his Sirius XM show, and we were talking about the same exact thing that was sort of like the last man standing. You know, and they liked me and they could trust me. And so I became that guy that could, you know, they had needs and I could fulfill those needs. Those needs were to get good publicity photos. And I was able to take those good publicity photos. And I was trusted by them. And they knew me and they liked me. And, you know, they knew they could have me around and I wouldn't let it go bad on them and could get the job done and be creative. And so that's sort of how I fell into that role.
Jim Marty: [00:26:29] Jerry, very, very interesting. And you talked about that skill set of lighting and studio portraits. Were you self-taught or did someone teach you that? Did you go to school for it?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:26:39] I am self-taught. Yes. When I first so when I first started shooting back in the 80s, at first I was mostly just a live concert photographer, like a lot of people still are today. It's actually interesting, you know, with the other digital camera. Everybody just as like I just, you know, shoot with a flash or my camera. You know, nobody takes the time to really learn, you know, at least like a concert photographer. But when I would open up a magazine like Rolling Stone magazine, you know, a band would be on the cover. It'd be a portrait. You'd open up to the story and there'd be a big nother portrait of a band that would be the lead photo. And then you flip the page and then there'd be like one small live shot of the band. Right. And those live shots from Rolling Stone or whatever magazine was paid maybe 150 or 200 dollars, whereas a cover shoot my pay. Fifteen hundred twenty five hundred thirty five hundred dollars. You know, and I was like, OK. So if I would actually make a living, I need to learn how to shoot cover photos. And if you cover photos, I actually need to learn how to do studio lighting. So I went out and bought a really small little off, you know, off camera flash strobe on a light stand. And I said, OK, if I plant my light stand here and pointed in this direction with this type of diffusion on it, what happens if I move it over here? What happens if I add a warming gel to it? What happens? I just started experimenting and shooting everybody that I could and every band and made a lot of mistakes and eventually taught myself how to do a really good job lighting people. And it's all about shadow and highlights and drama. Right, to bring out the essence of, you know, the person sitting in front of you as opposed to just like a flatly lit, boring photograph of somebody just sitting there.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:28:16] And so, yes, I am self-taught and absolutely fascinating and so insightful. And you want to be respectful of your time. So as we sort of come to the end of this timeslot, I'd like to open it up a little bit because this is the Desert Cannabis show. What about your relationship with marijuana? For me, it just feels so good today. The nation's travel and not be worried about being arrested. I'm flying from one state where it's legal to another. I am comfortable flying with it. A little marijuana with me. What is your relationship and do you still enjoy it?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:28:52] The last time I smoked marijuana was in 1981, so that would be 39 years ago. Now I accidentally eight some chocolate chip cookies backstage of the show. Not a dead show, but something else and got really messed up. I think that my daughter forced me to take a couple of hits of marijuana in Amsterdam a few years ago. And I think I was lying on the ground in my hotel room, passed out about 20 minutes later. No, I don't smoke pot and no interest in it. I know that it's legal and know that it's prevalent. I know that it's really strong. I know that people really like it. I know there's all sorts of brands and flavors of strength and citizens and this and that. But I just don't have any interest in you know, I stopped smoking pot a long time ago because I didn't I stopped enjoying it. I was a big pothead in the 70s, in the early 80s. You know, in 1980 and 81. And I just was like, you know what? I just am not enjoying this. And I stopped and, you know, that's just me. You know, more power to you.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:29:56] But on the other hand, I mean, you know, I have like a number of friends that are big pot growers. And I've been to their farms and I've photographed plants that yield 10 pounds of killer pot in southern Oregon. And I like the art and I like the smell of pot that's fresh. You know, I like that smell of good pot, but I don't smoke it and I don't have any interest and I don't vape and I don't take edibles. And I have done some, you know, negative THC CBD just to see, you know, put some salve on my arms or my back. But I think it's great that people can rely on that, because I know there are medicinal uses forth that are very helpful to a lot of people. People that are dying, people have cancer or people that are doing treatments, chemo treatments, nausea. You know, I joke. I have friends that are in the delivery business and the growing business. And I I joke with them all the time that, you know, they're just a bunch of dope dealers. But, you know, it's it's all good. I have no problem with it.
Jim Marty: [00:31:02] All right. Well, thank you very much for these very personal insights. I think Larry has one more question for you.
Larry Mishkin: [00:31:08] I do. First of all,, we're talking about this before we started. And, you know, the problem with this trend of this interview is that there's so many things we want to ask you, guy like you, that we just can't possibly get to all of them. So one of the things we're hoping is, is that we can possibly have you on again in the future.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:31:26] Sure. And if you think there's if you think there's more to talk about. But let's talk about my book a little bit, because we never even got to that. And then how about if you finish your last question, let's hear about it, please. So in the fall of twenty nineteen, I put out a book called Jerry Garcia Secret Space of Dreams. And John There wrote the foreword for it. And it's incredible, incredible essay that he wrote. You know it I knew that it would be a little bit controversial. And, you know, there's been one or two people that have said John Mayer, what's he doing writing a book, an essay or a forward for a book on Jerry Garcia? But when I asked John to write it, I said, I'm looking for you to write a essay forward from the perspective of an other guitar player, a very successful guitar player, a very talented guitar player, and also someone who's now playing these songs on a regular basis. And these songs are important to him. And what they mean and what they do and what they mean to the fans. And so John wrote an essay sent to me when the book came out. I gave him a copy of it backstage at the Guard. And maybe it was I can't remember. Halloween could have been somewhere sooner than I remember. But anyway, I gave it to him. He said, oh, great, I can't wait to read the foreword. I want to see. That's going to make me cry again, because when I finished it, it made me cry. And you wanted to what? It made me cry also. And you wanted to what? About a month ago. Two months ago, it so all of a sudden made its way on social media, like, have you guys seen this essay that John, like some people don't even know? It came from my book, people like, have you seen this essay that John Mayer wrote about Jerry Garcia? Like, yes, it's from Jay Blake's first new book.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:32:58] You know, Jerry Garcia, Secret Space of Dream. And it is just truly unbelievable. David Gand wrote the introduction for the book long-time historian Deadhead Trixie Garcia. Jerry's daughter wrote an essay and Dave Schools from Widespread Panic. There's also a huge Deadhead wrote the afterword and he's just incredible. Throughout the book, there's quotes by people like Dave Schools and train stars, you know, David Crosby and Jerry Garcia. You know, I found great quotes from all the band members on the Internet because they all have said great stuff about Jerry. And it's you know, it's a really solid book. I'm proud of it. I think the photos are great. I think that the response has been phenomenal. I'm going to say that pretty much everybody that's seen it loves it. I'm sure there are naysayers out there because that's, you know, the way of the world where people like to live, hiding behind their computers instead of out there at shows connecting with other like minded people who are into the same kind of scene, the same music. But and if you want to order the book directly from me and get a signed personalized copy of my Web site, which is W W W dot rock out books, dot com can also of course order it on Amazon.com and Barnes& Noble dot com. You can walk into pretty much any bookstore in the U.S. So anywhere that fine books are sold, you can get a copy of Jerry Garcia Secret Space of Dreams.
Larry Mishkin: [00:34:24] Well, Jay, I think I can verify for all of our listeners, because when I was in San Francisco earlier this year, you were kind enough to provide me with a copy. People all like the Grateful Dead for various reasons. I'm a Jerry guy. I always was. Always will be. And one of the things that was missing was something like this book that really, you know, the Jerry files out there. It's wonderful. And you're right. Yes. These are amazing. And I will confess that it's taken me a while to warm up to John Mayer in that role, not for any other reason, just that, you know, it's it's not Jerry. And so it's you got to get used to it. But I've really been impressed by him. And it was great to see the thoughts that he could share on Jerry and how that, you know, really helped shape him and trying to give me new respect for him. And the next time I saw Denny Company, I was like, OK, this is this is John's is where he's at. It's pretty awesome.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:35:17] Yeah, I agree. So, yeah. So that's basically my book. And, you know, go out and support the art support. You know, a a fine art photographer who happens to love the Grateful Dead and shoot the Grateful Dead.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:35:29] And, you know, the I Make a Living is by, you know, people, you know, put stuff out there on social media all the time. I share my photography on Instagram, which is at J. Blacksburg, and I share it on Facebook at J. Blacksburg Photography. I share it freely. And I don't ask anything from anybody. But when I do put out a book, I appreciate when people buy it, because that is how I pay my bills and support my family and, you know. You get to do what I do. So if it's something that you like and you like holding a coffee table book as opposed to just staring at photos on a computer screen, please go and get this. And if you go to my website, Rorke Outlook. You'll see all you'll see of all the other books. I've got a book called The Eyes of the World that came out two years ago, which I published with my publishing company and also co-edited with a guy named Josh Baron, who used to be an editor at Relics magazine. And that book is The Grateful Dead. From 1965 to 1995, 60 different photographers, including Annie Liebowitz and Jim Marshall, Baron Wolman, Peter Simon, Jay Blacksburg, Ed Perlstein. It's got all the in a Gene Anthony, it's got all the classic photographers in there and a lot of never before seen photos. And it spans the whole career. I put that out two years ago and before that I did my guitars, that jam book, and before that I did my hippie checkbook. And before they did that, I did my traveling on a high frequency book. And people have bought these books. And that's what keeps me going. And I love to share my work as opposed to just leaving a shoe box or, you know, just staring on the computer screen.
Larry Mishkin: [00:37:01] Since you mentioned John Mayer, one of the big things that happened in the dead world over the past year was letting companies show at Citi Field this past summer. I think it was. And besides the fact that it was a great show. I think that one of the highlights may have been a highlight of the whole then company scene. Was it for the show there? Jon played Jerry Wolf guitar for the people who know Jerry and his guitar. That's what was his very, very famous guitars. And when I was with you earlier this year, you were kind enough to share with me the story. You actually played a role in this company. I'm wondering if you could just give our listeners a quick rundown on how that all came to be.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:37:40] Sure. So in August of twenty seventeen four of Jerry's primary guitars, Wolf, Tiger, Rosebud and Travis B.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:37:49] And that's the one he played in 77 with all those legendary shows were all on display at Red Rocks for the Jerry Garcia seventy fifth birthday celebration. And when I was at that show, I said to John, Hey, do you want to check out one of these guitars? You want to hold it? You want to play it. You want to. You want to get a picture with it. And he's like, now I'm like, I can bring it to your dressing room and nobody needs to see you're doing. It is like, no. You know, he was very, very sensitive and very self-aware of his place in the script. And, you know, he was still earning the trust of Deadheads two years into the band at that point, and he just didn't want to do it. Fast forward to this past March of twenty nineteen. John called me and said, I've been having this idea that maybe I should try and play Wolf for the show or maybe on a whole tour. And I know that you're the guy that can make it happen. And so Wolf is owned by a guy, a tech company and a tech company owner on the East Coast. And I happen to be friends with that person. But I'm better friends with the guy who's his best friend. He was what we call the wolf handler. And that guy's name is David Merriman Scott. David is a very famous author, writing and talking about social media and how how it affects all of us.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:39:03] And so I called David immediately and said John is interested in playing Wolf on the summer tour. And David said, oh, that's great. But in about 10 days, Wolf is going to go to the Metropolitan Museum in New York for this big rock and roll musical instrument exhibit. And I said, OK. But also, John said he won't play it on tour unless he can play it in advance because he can't just go cold and say, bring it to the show, bring it to the tour. He's going to try it out. And Wolf just happened to be in San Francisco. So I was on the East Coast doing a book tour, actually. And I got I arranged for Wolf to get on an airplane and fly down to L.A. and was brought to John. And the other thing is, is that John was get ready to leave to go on tour with his band three days later in Australia. So we had about three days to make this happen. And then a week after that, it was going to go to the museum and be locked in a glass case until for six months. So we got the guitar down there. John played it. He freaked out. He called me on the phone. Later that day, I was driving from Macon, Georgia, to Atlanta, Georgia, about 10 or 11 o'clock at night. My time on these Kozo, he was in L.A. and he was just freaking out. And he said, let's do it. And so David Scott, David Merriman, Scott got permission from the museum to let it go.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:40:25] Got a mission from the owner to let it go. And then it was getting very complicated again, John. Very, very self-aware individual. He's like, you know what? I don't want to play this on the whole tour because I don't want that much attention on me and the guitar, because it's about this band. It's about Bobby, it's about Billy, it's about Mickey. It's about oatmeal. It's about Jeff. So I would like to just play this guitar just in New York City at Citi Field, because then. Just go get the guitar at the museum the day of Bring It Over will change the strings, I can play it and the next day it's back at the museum. And then we don't have to worry about, you know, private security in an armored truck for the next Dena. three months while we're on tour or whatever it was two months. And so we all thought that was a great idea. We got the museums to sign off on it and it was brought to job at Citi Field. He grabbed it, went into his dressing room. He noodles around with it. We took some photos and he came out and he crushed it. And we kept it a really, really good secret. Very, very few people knew that this was going to happen. And after the whole deal was sort of put in place and everything was locked down and set in stone, we went out at that point is when we started telling all the band managers, no.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:41:46] John had asked the band, Bob and and Billy and Mickey what they thought, you know, way back in March. And they were like, yeah, sure, no problem. Whatever you want to do, like they were just fine with it. And so a few weeks, three, four or five weeks, six weeks, maybe before the tour, I started letting the band management know because they needed to be in on it. And they were about the only ones that know. And I'm sure you know the story about, you know, Bobby's manager, Matt, who helps with all the setlists every night. And I wanted him to know because I wanted him to write, you know, specific songs into that set list. And my only suggestion was Morning Dew. And he's like, yeah, I'm already on that. Without a doubt that's gonna happen because he wanted to hear John Mayer on Wolf guitar play Morning Dew also, just like I did and just like I knew everybody else would. And so he put that on the set list and that's how the show ended. And John's just absolutely crushed it. And I have the photo of those peak moments at the very, very end of the song. And I think that everybody was pretty damn excited by the whole thing, including John and including the fans. And that was it. That was John there playing Wolf at Citi Field with derecho on June 23rd. Twenty nineteen.
Jim Marty: [00:43:01] I've heard that and see videos of it. But how did it sound up close?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:43:05] Amazing. I was I was on the stage right in front of John, right next to Jeff's piano. You know, for that that morning, too, for that last soul, it was incredible.
Jim Marty: [00:43:16] And one last question and maybe you don't know, but you talked about an armored truck. What do you think Wolf is worth?
Jay Blakesberg: [00:43:22] It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Like any asset like that. But I believe the guy who bought it. The guy who owned it before that was a guy named Dan Pritzker. And Dan bought it, I believe, for just under a million dollars. Whenever that was. I don't know how many years ago. And Dan, let Wolf out to play. You know, Chris Robinson played it, Neil Casal played it, Ryan Adams played it. And it was a bunch of people who played it over the years. And then he decided to sell it and donate 100 percent of the proceeds. He didn't even get his investment back. Back 'scuse me. He donated 100 percent of proceeds to the Southern Poverty Law Center. And if you know that. And so they put it up for auction. And I believe it sold for one point four million dollars. And with all the fees and everything and percentages and auction house stuff and so on and so forth, they believe it came out to 1 7 or one eighth somewhere in that range. I'm not exactly positive. If it went up for auction tomorrow, wouldn't sell for that much money again. I think so. You know what? The sell for more maybe. Hard to say. But you know, that's what it sold for. And so what's it worth? I don't know. 1.7 million dollars, I guess.
Jim Marty: [00:44:40] Well, once again, thank you for your generous time with us this afternoon, this evening here in Denver. And then we'll go ahead and sign off.
Larry Mishkin: [00:44:48] Yeah. Jay, thank you so much. We may reach out to you again someplace in the future tonight. I've got a list here. About 20 other questions I want to ask you. And you've been more than generous with your time today.
Jay Blakesberg: [00:44:59] , let let's let's read. We'll revisit in a year. How's that sound? I love that. That's perfect. We'll do it right after playing in the sand next year.
Larry Mishkin: [00:45:07] We can make it an annual thing even better. So our guest today was Jay Blake, spurred rock photographer extraordinaire with the Grateful Dead Fish, the whole jam band scene. Please go to his Web site. What was the Web site again, Jake?
Larry Mishkin: [00:45:21] Rock out books, dot com.
Larry Mishkin: [00:45:23] Please go there. Please check out his books. If you're a Grateful Dead friend, you have to go see this new Jerry Garcia book.
Larry Mishkin: [00:45:30] It is outstanding and we can't recommend it enough. So thank you for everything, Jake. Thank you. Appreciate it, you guys. Thanks, Jim. Thanks, Larry.
Jim Marty: [00:45:38] And we'll talk to him over and out from the dead Genevieve Show. Thanks for listening, everyone. We'll see you soon.
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