Kevin Pilarski from Revolution Enterprises joins Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin in the Hoban Law Group's Denver office to talk cannabis and jam bands. Revolution Enterprises is a large multi-state cannabis company based in Illinois with facilities throughout the country. They discuss managing cannabis price fluctuations and reasons for the variances. They end the show reminiscing about some of the epic concerts they've attended. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/kevin-pilarski https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Kevin Pilarski from Revolution Enterprises joins Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin in the Hoban Law Group's Denver office to talk cannabis and jam bands. Revolution Enterprises is a large multi-state cannabis company based in Illinois with facilities throughout the country. They discuss managing cannabis price fluctuations and reasons for the variances. They end the show reminiscing about some of the epic concerts they've attended.
https://podconx.com/guests/kevin-pilarski
https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty
https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Jim Marty: [00:00:36] Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Deadhead Cannabis Show. I'm here in Denver, Colorado, this evening with my partner Larry Mission from Chicago, who is in town for a few days.
Larry Mishkin: [00:00:46] I am, Jim. Nice to see you, as always. Nice to be in Denver and have a chance for us to catch up and actually tape our show together, although I prefer to be out at the bar and I'm happy to see you here at the Hoban law. office.
Jim Marty: [00:00:58] Very good. And we have a guest today.
Larry Mishkin: [00:01:00] We do. We have a special guest with us, Kevin Pilarski. Kevin is with the Revolution Group. They're out of it, based in Illinois. They're a multi-state operator now and have done very, very well for themselves on the marijuana side. And Kevin was kind enough to join us today. And he's going to answer some of our questions and give us some of his thoughts, both on the new adult youth program we have in Illinois. And then on the Hemp side of things, revolution is taking a look at that as well. And he has some thoughts to offer.
Jim Marty: [00:01:29] Excellent, excellent. And in addition, we've got him on the show because he also has some Grateful Dead credentials.
Jim Marty: [00:01:35] So Kevin shows what was your first grade so that.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:01:38] You get to believe that it was probably 1985 at Soldier Field. I've seen more that in company, other ones the dad shows than I've seen. I'm grateful that shows. I think I only saw Jerry maybe half a dozen times. Sure. Like that.
Jim Marty: [00:01:58] Did you get to the fairly well, 50? Absolutely.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:02:00] I was I was there for all three, Larry, and I was there as well. Stitcher and wonderful shows on those. I'll never forget that second song when they plug in to Jack Straw. And that ripple just went through that entire state.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:02:13] So to do a good job. I love it. I'm a big fish fan. Yes. Absolutely. I thought you could do a very good job.
Jim Marty: [00:02:20] Sell. Well, tell us about revolution. Because, you know, it was just a couple of weeks into it. Three weeks into it. Don't use it now. They tell us what's going on.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:02:29] So Revolution is a multi-state operator that was founded now on the line two thousand fifteen. Like many other cultivators, it came of age, an old line. We had a rough patch when we went to a Republican governor. The program was stifled. Yes, for 40 years.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:02:49] Like, we have finally crossed a hundred thousand patient marker or close to it. And now that it's all users is in place. Things are humming certainly across the entire state from cultivating standpoint. But fortunately, the quickness with which the law was passed and adult use was put into place has caused some shortages. And that's that's something that I think all of the cultivators now are trying to to work through right now. We're certainly building as fast as we can. And I know our competitors are doing that.
Jim Marty: [00:03:22] How would you say the prices are? What is an eighth of an ounce costuse them. So it's typically between fifty five and seventy dollars for a day.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:03:34] We've been very cautious about raising prices, even though our competition has done so. We've tried not to to gouge the market the way that it might be perceived, especially on the medical side. Now we have only one dispensary and only right now and it is being closely. And so, you know, a lot of our product goes to that medical dispensary as well as the 55 other dispensaries to demonstrate an interesting in that because of the shortage. You know, there's been former contracts, arm sales amongst many cultivators due to a different possible buyers. You know, we've done a little bit of that, but have really tried to make sure that our products distributed as evenly as we can across the state.
Jim Marty: [00:04:22] And what is the the town and the address of your medical dispensary for people listening out there?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:04:28] So that's new aged care. It's about prospect on Euclid Avenue. And again, it's medical knowledge. So all of those in fact, it's interesting.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:04:37] We've seen about a 24 percent increase in the first three and a half weeks of January from a patient count standpoint, most of which have been medical patients from other dispensaries that what medical adult use that have come up with because we fully stocked our dispensary with our products.
Jim Marty: [00:04:56] That's very interesting point of reference. No, Colorado has had adult use since 2014 and we still have over 100000 medical patients on the rolls. Some of the reasons for that that are pricing lower taxes. And the real key to it is 18 to 21 year olds can get a medical card, so they have to be 21 to buy it all. So we then move maintained even with adult use in Colorado, a strong medical program and our wholesale pounds for medical sell for more than our recreational path's interest rate is very interesting.
Larry Mishkin: [00:05:29] We've really seen quite . Yes. As Kevin pointed out, we've had a period of time. Long period of time where the market was very much stifled and it was very, very frustrating for me. Of course, the great irony is now that we have adult use, the patient population is exploding. But of course, for the reasons that you just set out that it does provide for better pricing with the excise tax, which al-Khoei rate is between 15 to 25 percent depending on the product. And it does it bounces the price up. And just my own very informal survey, I found it at the medical dispensary. I go to buy an 8th for generally around 60, but I went to the adult USLAW. My own brother said that they were selling to set me free. So there's there's definitely a difference in price. And, you know, people who have figured that out or are jumping on board on the medical side.
Jim Marty: [00:06:16] Cpa firm, Bridge West, has many adult use clients here in Colorado, and they would love to see those prices because we're at twenty to twenty five dollars an eighth year in Colorado. How much for your business net of revolution you should find are declining prices over time?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:06:33] Absolutely.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:06:34] Our wholesale price today is somewhere between thirty five hundred and four thousand dollars. Compared to Colorado, which is roughly twelve hundred fifty dollars pound. So we fully expect that as cultivation catches up with demand that those prices will decrease. One of the tenets of what revolution has done is we've only chosen to participate in markets where there are limited licenses. We feel that there is an advantage in limited license markets that are oligopolies and they can provide for better margin protection. And and that's what we'll continue to do on the Cannabis side. But we fully expect that prices will come down over time.
Jim Marty: [00:07:19] You're absolutely right about the limited license versus unlimited lines. We have unlimited license here in Colorado. You can still walk into our marijuana enforce provision with a clean record and a check that clears a block out the license. So evaluation purposes the states that have limited license, like Massachusetts, for instance, most recently Missouri, you find that those valuations of the companies are much higher. Sure.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:07:43] We've just recently completed a cultivation facility in Arkansas that will be up and running February 1st. It's in the process of being inspected right now. And we also have four dispensaries in Arkansas. Again, a limited license work.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:08:02] It's similar to Illinois in that it's roughly a third of the population, but also a third of the licenses. So, you know, we've seen some annoy has been a good proxy for what we expect to see in Arkansas.
Larry Mishkin: [00:08:16] One of the things I would ask is, you know, for all the people talking about how, you know, the Illinois market never really took off very well. One of the things that's always struck me as interesting is the number of up and going and successful multi-state operators that are based in Illinois. And there's a few of you guys out of you. Prisco GCI. Is there any explanation for what caused this? People just saying we're not gonna be able to do in Illinois, so let's look nationally.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:08:39] Well, I think those operators that started nonoy realized that it was a tough road to hoe. And so they had to learn how to run their businesses efficiently from a capital standpoint, efficiently from a headcount standpoint. Like any good business, when you encounter problems, those that succeed are the ones that come those problems. And I think that was kind of a time when we had natural selection, which companies that came out of Illinois as opposed to companies that have come out of other states. But having said that, there are still some great companies that I respect that have come out of other states. Columbia Care harvest. are two that come to mind that are both very well run. And, you know, I think the cream of the crop. But it is interesting that a lot of the welfare state operators came out of the way and attribute that to the fact that those years in 2015 18 were pretty early.
Jim Marty: [00:09:31] And what other states are you in besides of them?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:09:34] We have operations in Arkansas, Illinois, we have dispensary in Maryland, license in Florida, probably building on our facility. Alliterate names. Do they wonder?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:09:43] Well, are all of the revolution global trade name mentioned as a company?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:09:48] We have brands that we will continue to support in other states in both the Spectra brand, which is a derivative brand. And that's where all of our commitment for that brand, if you know our search brand, which is a liquid syrup that can be poured in two drinks, coffee especially has become very professional brand. That's part of that sprint. It's interesting to to see that that grow. So so that that brand tweet will continue to be useful for the properties.
Dan Humiston: [00:10:29] I want to take a quick break to thank you for listening to today's show as the exclusive Cannabis podcast network. We're constantly adding new Cannabis podcasts to support our industry's growth. And that's why we're so excited to welcome the Seed to Sound podcast to our network. The team, it seems to sound, has produced over 50 exciting. Stop provoking Cannabis podcasts. And now you can listen to all their previous episodes in all their new episodes at MJ Blaze.com. So welcome Steve to Sound. And stay tuned for a new exciting Cannabis podcast on the MJ Blues Cannabis Podcast Network.
Jim Marty: [00:11:14] Steer the conversation a little different area. If you could tell us a little bit about your background and how that your background has brought you into some opinions on the CBD market. As I would like to say, you can't turn on the radio today without see here in a CBD commercial for CBD products.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:11:33] Very well. I'm the capital markets. At the end of the day, my career has been a unique one, I guess, to say the least.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:11:41] It's certainly been a lot of different areas that I started as a derivative trader on the floor of the Chicago Board of Trade and then ran derivative trading companies for the better part of a decade and then moved into the index business with Dow Jones and built electronic trading business with Cantor Fitzgerald EPD.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:12:00] And then most recently, I was repeatedly seen as a manager. So derivatives and capital markets are really my background. And when we started looking at the Hemp working year and a half, 18 months ago, my biggest concern was that there was no way to hedge the price of have into the future.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:12:17] So if you're a farmer and you put corn in the ground, you can sell that corn forward and know that you're going to make a profit on it because you can sell it. It's all price, right? Similarly, with beans or any other cultural commodity, you were in cattle and what used to be pork bellies, which was some bacon. You know, you don't have that in the Hemp market and you don't add it because it's still a very nascent market compared to those other markets.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:12:43] trade was founded in the mid eighteen hundreds and it's been in existence for well over a hundred six years, primarily catering to the agricultural community. But it is a price smoothing mechanism, but it's a it's a hedging mechanism that allows for both the buyer and the seller to make sure that their pricing volatility is minimized. So by example, if your.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:13:08] Kellogg And you want to buy cornflakes. You know, you get it by colon and have it every month for the next year or two years or whatever. And therefore, the farmers know what his price of corn will be in the future. And they choose to hedge all or which crop. Not a statistic. I think that that we should keep in mind is the actual size of the market relative to other cultural markets. That market last year was at eighty thousand acres. There were roughly 550000 registered this year, maybe 200 to 250 thousand of those were actually grown. Two hundred and fifty thousand acres nationally. In Illinois, we did eleven million acres of corn alone and we have 20 million acres of agricultural tillage that is spread between corn and beans, week's alfalfa hay, but primarily Corbin's wheat. So when you look at two hundred fifty thousand acres versus 20 million in the state of Illinois alone, you can see that the Hemp is still quite a dominionist crop when it comes to, you know, its effect on national and global markets.
Jim Marty: [00:14:12] In some of the things I've seen, because the British West, we have several dozen CBD and Hemp company clients and farmers is now they did their harvest in September, early October of 2019. A lot of that crop is still sitting and prices are very, very low compared with a year ago is 40 to 60 dollars a pound. Now we're hearing prices in the five to ten dollars a pound range this year. But my opinion is there won't be another harvest now until next September, October nationally. So when we see prices tick up in that product, get absorbed into the marketplace and absorb into all the CBD products that are advertised on the radio, we very well, very well may in larger, more established markets when prices bottom out, they tend to take twelve to 18 months to come back.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:14:59] Now, having said that, last year we saw prices of biomass spike again pre harvest.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:15:06] So you think about the June, July, August timeframe was when, you know, biomass was at its peak, but most farmers had expected to get somewhere between three and $4 a percentage point on TBD. And now they're lucky to get 50 cents to a dollar. And I think if you look at some of the there's a couple of different services out there. Hemp benchmarks being one of them. Another exchange here in Denver. It's trying to get on. You can see, you know, what the benchmark pricing is not only nationally, but also on a localized basis. It's important because Hemp market doesn't have the infrastructure of other agricultural markets. So a national crisis is oftentimes misleading. It tends to be much more localized based on the extraction capabilities of that local market, as well as the ability to move the product from state to state.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:16:00] And we know that there was some trouble with that last year. I think that's been pushed out. Lester in Idaho right now, there's still some issues there.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:16:09] One of our clients said some biomass through the mail to be tested and it got flagged.
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:14] So what we're finding with that is that this is just the byproduct, once again, of a lack of education, law enforcement. They don't know what they're dealing with and they admit freely. I had a situation earlier this year where a client of mine had CVT products, shipped it to them from Washington State to sell there in Illinois. They were flagged at the local FedEx place. The Chicago police came to pick them up. I went down to try and get them, but we came to counsel. It's Cannabis. We had to go through the whole. No, it's simple because it has THC in it. That's really after, you know, far too many telephone calls and visits down with Chicago police. I finally got somebody who what we were talking about three weeks later, they gave my client product back. And of course, he had incurred legal fees along the way and no products on the shelf for three months. But it is kind of a slow process in that regard for four people in the industry. I told him if you're gonna sit down and get involved in CBD, I think the most important contract right now is transportation. Who's going to take the risk on shipping because this is a real problem out there. You can't just assume that it's going to get from point A to point B.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:17:16] And I think that it's a testing issue as well. So, you know, smells the same. Looks the same. You know, unless you've got a test Dena. mechanism that can determine whether or not it's point three. Yes. It's pretty difficult for any law enforcement agency to understand where it is on the spot. Now, that brings up a whole other question, which is, you know, the THC 8:48 test versus the total THC hadjust, which is a big concern amongst farmers based on the latest USDA language, just from Cannabis standpoint. We have products that will test at point three percent 8:48, but their THC total THC can exceed 30 percent. Sure. So once it's decarbonize related from THC to THC. 9. You understand that it's really. Right. However, you know, there's a lot of product that is being sold today as smokeable Hemp. Yes, that is over point 3 percent total THC, but it may be under 0.3 percent tonight because all that THC, that is an excess which has not been heated to become, you know, the deltatime that that has the psychotropic effect.
Larry Mishkin: [00:18:33] Right. Which raises an interesting question altogether as the artistic sales, 0.3 percent is legal. And you're right. I mean, it really opens up the twisting past 3 percent on paper and testing. But we all know when you put a mask to it, then it's a whole different story. That's very true.
Jim Marty: [00:18:49] Well, speaking of regulation, the FDA and Hemp is related to Hemp. I don't believe that any of us have seen in our lifetime in a consumer product that you put in your body. It has some effect on you medically with virtually no testing and no background.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:19:07] Kevin, I think you have some opinions and I do as a former hedge fund manager for a biotech company and I'm very familiar with the FDA process. And I find it difficult to believe that the FDA will approve CBD when a company has already gone through the FDA clinical stage approval process to get CBT approved as a drug. Meaning? Meaning. GW Pharma and the dialect they front ran. Everyone did all the necessary steps and spent the billions of dollars to get the product approved and the compound approved. I don't see the FDA making an exception just because there's public demand out there. Having said that, under a lot of pressure to do something. But I just don't believe that that the FDA is going to roll over because there's public pressure. And I guess as a former trader and natural managing risk manager, you know, I think about that Pinery risk.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:20:03] The FDA can say no definitively. And you're out of business, right? That's right.
Jim Marty: [00:20:09] So you think some of these products that we see on the shelf today, we will name them, but are less shelf life could be severely limited by regulation?
Kevin Pilarski: [00:20:19] Well, there's thirty five hundred companies right now that are peddling CBD products out there. That's the first issue. The second issue is there is no need or requirement for third party testing. So you really don't know what you're getting in that bottle, right.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:20:35] Third, the economics on the retail side are unsustainable. And I say that because I went out and purchased a 5000 Millville bottle of CBD oil that was fully tested and was well respected in the market. And that was three hundred ninety dollars for five thousand dollars.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:20:59] That is the equivalent of five grams of CBD. Isolate it at the time you realize it was trading at five thousand dollars a kilo. So that means there's twenty five dollars of CBD icily in a product that's selling for three hundred ninety dollars. Today CBD Eisley is somewhere between fifteen hundred and two thousand dollars a kilo. Yes. And and my point being that, you know, those prices at three or nine dollars are unsustainable over time. Any kind of margins that the competition will come in. What I do think well is likely to happen is at some point a pharmaceutical company will buy out some of the bigger names that are in the CBD industry, Gitesh, so that they have access to the product, the technology and farmers and the whole supply chain that's necessary. But I don't see thirty five hundred CBD companies being successful over the next two to five years. I think that that's late. Like anything, there'll be consolidation. I think one of the things that's interesting is what, you know, revolutions looking at is, you know, the idea that farmers have taken on the Hemp crop as a new revenue stream, but in some cases have had haven't made the kind of returns that they're hopeful in the CBD side.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:22:14] Our belief is that, you know, there's a lot of players in the CBD side, and that's probably not an area that we want playing today, given the competition and the concern about risk with with the approval process. But on the industrial side of Hemp, whether it's the seed or fiber, you know, there's amazing opportunities there. If you just look at what has gone out in China, in Europe since 1937 when we've had the Hemp crop, you know, those markets have become robust. In China, they have a natural buyer from there, have fibre in the People's Republic and People's Republic of China. All their uniforms are made in Europe. Interestingly enough, many German car manufacturers now have Hemp body panels on their door panels. They're in their dashboards being cheaper, lighter and stronger. Typical plastics. It should be noted that they're not completely biodegradable because the technology to turn it into plastic, although we all hope that isn't there.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:23:17] Today, roughly 20 percent of those body farms are still made of some kind of a pile of plastic based, but we feel that the technology is flawed. The opportunity centers.
Larry Mishkin: [00:23:28] Well, as you and I know, Bob Hoban law., the Hoban law. group is taking that position for a long, long time. In fact, you and I talked about Bob's presentation that you heard of business here. And it's a point that we really try to emphasize with our clients, because as you say, when you say that you have different choices in terms of the product, you can come up with your Hemp. One of them has to go through the FDA because all of these problems and we just don't know what the heck is going to ever happen with it. And I don't think we're going to have that problem. Door panels for Ford or GM. Know once they get the formulas worked out and how they will do it. And really, I think that you guys are obviously smart enough to figure that out as well. But maybe Hemp as has a much larger life outside of it to see what we think.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:24:11] So we think that, you know, the margin compression I'd have if that were to come is is years, if not decades off. Think about the Chinese or the Europeans that have had from 1937 to 2019, but it's roughly 70 years or 80 years they are ahead of us that that we still need to play catch up. But if we were to produce the same amount of Hemp that go into European cars today, we would need to build 30 DeCosta cane plants in the United States to just match the demand that is currently in Europe just for all the parts. So the discussion here needs to be about scalable right and not about, you know, a cottage industry that has, you know, five hundred thousand or two fifty thousand acres and we need millions of acres of Hemp in order to make this successful on a mass lush.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:25:06] And, you know, the fact that we're all much concerned about the environment and sustainability, even though those Habtoor panels may not be fully biodegradable, at least you get a shot of them, 80 percent of the product that's going into it, which is in fact, how degradable. Right. And you know, as the technology improves with polymers, we expect it will eventually be able to get to single-use plastics plant based. Right. It may be happy, maybe Cornu, maybe orange peel lineup, but without scale, you don't get the pricing.
Jim Marty: [00:25:42] It's competitive. Kevin, thank you very much. It is usually insightful. There's so much I think there's a lot more unknown than is known about CBD and products at this point. So that was very interesting. Maybe we should talk a little music on our way out the door here. We can do that. So you have a show to go to?
Larry Mishkin: [00:26:00] I am. You know, business never stops, except there's good music to see. I was out here today for my meetings. And if the weather cooperates back in Chicago, be back there tomorrow and off to see dusty trucks tomorrow night at the Chicago Theatre. One of my favorite bands is we've talked about your trucks, I think is the bomb out there right now playing guitar. Quite frankly, if he wasn't onstage, we'd be saying the same thing about his life. So it's a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to that because they always put on a good show.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:26:26] Yeah, it's interesting. We talked about my experience as a dad at my musical experience, starting with the Allman Brothers back in the 70s. And, you know, the ability to see well, I never saw Duane, but I saw to keep explain. Sure.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:26:41] Probably 50 times. And so I started out as long, brother. And then, of course, you can join the band or Woody or you know, there's lots of different players that have been through that band. It's a natural was a natural progression for me to understand the musical talents of the Allman Brothers and then not just normally, just naturally fluid becoming a fan of the great.
Larry Mishkin: [00:27:06] Absolutely right. And I think you there are just two sides of the same coin. And your comments about the rain, all that are well-taken. And there are there are not many rock and roll legends who I regret not having sea life. He is certainly one of them. But by the same token, I think how incredibly lucky we are, because if there's anybody that's talent channeling his soul, it's Derek trucks and dusty trucks that traded the Layla album with Lock last year. To me, that was, you know, you close your eyes. Is it Derek? Is it Dwayne? Does it matter? It's just break guitar and it's wonderful to see.
Jim Marty: [00:27:41] And I'll take this opportunity to plug a great documentary I just saw courtesy of Jon Fishman from Phish. He does a serious radio show called The Aaron Path. Wonderful. Totally eclectic. The great documentary called Muscle Shoals Golf and has everybody in it, from Elvis to Martin Luther King to Duane Allman, once he's got the Allman Brothers and the Big Allman Brothers and. And I was old enough to at least see on TV. Duane Allman and some great photos in Muscle Shoals of the young Allman Brothers, Dan, with so many of the Allman Brothers songs that people don't understand were actually covers all 1920s, 30s, 40s and 50s blues shirts. Blind Willie Dixon was some of the ones they covered. I can't think of off top of my head right now. But you think that's an original Allman Brothers song, but it's not only hopelessness.
Larry Mishkin: [00:28:35] Same thing with the Grateful Dead with both bands did is they took these songs and made them the rock.
Jim Marty: [00:28:39] Yes. So many of the songs The Grateful Dead were who might think, you know, Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard.
Larry Mishkin: [00:28:45] It would be, I think, like a song like Stagger League, which, you know, ending up with what you look at. They got 50 different people who may have written that or greatest story ever told. Got it. They took those songs and they put their own stamp on it.
Jim Marty: [00:28:58] And so even or even that debt cover exists. Yes. Yes. Yes. Flippant sentences. They did.
Kevin Pilarski: [00:29:07] Jesus comes to show. All right.
Larry Mishkin: [00:29:09] Like Jesus just love stuff. You just love. Well, do a couple of plugs here at the end. My next show will be moister hit the playing in the Denver area here next month. And so Stewart Copeland. Sure. From the police on drums and Trey Distasio on lead and then drawing a blank like let's play pool on on-base shirt. So that'll be a lot of fun. And one more plug for our son. Jack's band was just written up and our son Jack plays in a fish tribute band called Kings of Prussia. And they were just written up here in Westword here, Music magazine here in Denver. Sure. As an up and coming fish tribute band. Well, and they're getting three or four gigs a night as he finishes up college. And it's exciting. So his absence is his mother said, you cannot be a musician. You have to get a job. Use your college degree. You can't live on $50 a night as a musician.
Larry Mishkin: [00:30:05] Grateful Dead wrote a song about that. So we know they gave us. Yes, sir.
Jim Marty: [00:30:10] All right, everybody. I think we're coming to the end here. Anything else, gentlemen? Down for the actor.
Larry Mishkin: [00:30:15] Kevin, thank you for joining us. Don't laugh. You revolution. Appreciate it.
Jim Marty: [00:30:19] Thank you so much, Kevin. Wonderful insight. Jim Maadi here.
Larry Mishkin: [00:30:23] Same general pleasure. I will look forward to coming out to Denver again soon to visit you one more time. All right. Over and out. From Denver, Colorado and the Deadhead Cannabis show by everybody.
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