Many fans believe that 1977 was one of the Grateful Dead's best years, Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin excitedly review the recent release of Dave's Picks Volume 33 and their Northern Illinois University concert. Jim interviews Bethany Moore from the National Cannabis Industry Association and their work to pass favorable cannabis legislation. Produced by PodCONX https://podconx.com/guests/bethany-moore https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt Photo Courtesy of Jay Blakesberg
Many fans believe that 1977 was one of the Grateful Dead's best years, Jim Marty and Larry Mishkin excitedly review the recent release of Dave's Picks Volume 33 and their Northern Illinois University concert. Jim interviews Bethany Moore from the National Cannabis Industry Association and their work to pass favorable cannabis legislation.
https://podconx.com/guests/bethany-moore
https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
https://podconx.com/guests/jim-marty
https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Photo Courtesy of Jay Blakesberg
Jim Marty: [00:00:35] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Deadhead Cannabis show. This is Jim Marty, including from the NE Cannabis consuls in Bloss put on the film by the National Cannabis Industry Association. That's my partner Larry Mishkin in Chicago. habermann there, Larry.
Larry Mishkin: [00:00:54] Jim, I'm doing just fine. We're having a beautiful day in Chicago, which always makes ice cold but beautiful, nice and sunny. Beautiful day and blossom as well. Yeah, well, I love going to those conferences, especially in Boston. My son was out there, so I'm envious of you. I hope you're having a great time.
Jim Marty: [00:01:10] I am. I've been traveling around the state and talking to clients. You know, it's regulatory. Hell, actually, Larry, you can relate to this. But people have said there's more adult use dispensaries open in Illinois in three months than there has been blossom opened in three years since they got a don't use. So we still have a situation with very few retail. I believe there's only one in Boston proper for a city of millions and there's still a big shortage of product. And I was with a client yesterday who's been at it for two years, and he hopes to get his what they call his provisional license in March next month, which means he'll be able to start filling out his cultivation. Oh, wow. And if all goes well, he hopes to have his plants in the ground by the end of 2020 with the first harvest in the first quarter of twenty twenty one. So it's a very long and slow profit this year, heavily regulated. Now the building Cannabis takes it ever this cost double and triple what I'm used to seeing in other states like Missouri and Colorado.
Jim Marty: [00:02:23] I was at a place yesterday where including the building itself and it was going to come in close to five hundred dollars a square foot. So does that 50000 square seed. Was the facility five times five? So twenty five million dollars to build out of fifty five thousand square feet.
Jim Marty: [00:02:43] Cultivation. And I'm doing the math in my head. Just. How long is it going to take to get that return on investment?
Larry Mishkin: [00:02:51] Oh, God. Forever. I should say that. But yeah, that's that's that's an incredible amount of upfront cost. And while I feel sorry for my friends in Massachusetts, you know, that's that's a good thing to know. And that would be good for people in Illinois to know, because, of course, you know, we're experiencing shortages and long lines here still, too. So it's nice to know that there's a group out there that's looking at us and thinking we're doing it right. So that that's always positive. But just. Yeah, you know, we're coming along here. We're work in the middle still of our next round of applications for craft row and manufacturing and transportation. Those are all due by March 16th. So things are starting to get a little a little crazy on this end as everybody tries to pull it all together. We do have the social equity component. And so we have a lot of people trying to figure out how to work around the social equity. And when I say work around, I don't necessarily mean to avoid having social equity people. But one of the rules in Illinois requires the social equity applicants to own 51 percent and control the company. And it becomes a problem when you're the 49 percent owner and you're the one putting in 100 percent of the money. So we have to try and come up with different ways to smooth that over and make it all work out while still staying true to the spirit and the intent of the law, which I think we're doing a pretty good job of doing so. It's all very exciting. And I'll tell you, one of the things that's going on here right now, Jim, that surprised me because, you know, this is the type of thing that typically doesn't get start talking about the default you state for a couple of years.
Larry Mishkin: [00:04:30] But in Illinois right now, there is a lot of talk about public smoking lounges and everyone's surprise the actual adult use still allows for public smoking lounges. But it puts a very big Jeff out there. And the f- is that you have to have the consent of the local municipality. And so far, it's been very difficult to locate any municipalities that are willing to give a green light for public consumption lounges. Now, I'm very Litefoot, mayor of Chicago, has indicated that she thinks it would be a good idea for Chicago, but we still haven't seen it happen yet. I know groups that are going out to some of the smaller communities and talking to them out there kind of, hey, look, you'll draw people in your community. They're going to want to go get something to eat. And one of your restaurants, they'll buy gas for their drive home or whatever the case may be. But of course, it's raising a very interesting question for us, which is to dram shop laws apply to pump. Wow, just because the difference will be that the public smoking lounge, the odor cannot now paralyze, you have to bring your own to the lounge and smoke it there. So it's not really quite the same as the bartender giving you another drink for their profit after you're too drunk. But I'm willing to bet that the first time somebody leaves one of those lounges and has a car accident, we will see Silvergrass, a plaintiff's attorney trying to rope in the owner of the lounge. So insurance considerations are very big with that, too.
Jim Marty: [00:06:09] Yes. Well, that's a lot of topics that you covered there starting back where you started.
Jim Marty: [00:06:16] Massachusetts does have a social equity program. It does not apply to the existing medical marijuana license holders, but it does help people who are applying for adult use get extra points over the state and the local level. In fact, I just heard a absolutely hair raising story of a young man who was importing marijuana to the East Coast from California when he was a young man, 21 years old. This thing was going just fine. He was doing it to support his parents who were out of work at the time. And a few years go by. And he was he gets a license here in Massachusetts to open a medical marijuana business. And then one day, the feds kicked his door and he ends up getting five years. He served three and a half years. But one of my clients is going to put him on the board of directors for their social equity component. I also went to a very interesting dinner last night called the LP, Who the Less Prisoner Dislodges.
Jim Marty: [00:07:24] And if you've heard of that, Larry, I have. But the concept is no one to get nonviolent marijuana, Sanders or other low level drug offenders out of jail.
Jim Marty: [00:07:34] And then once we're out of jail, try to get the records expunged. And so they have a general last night here in Boston, they had a full room and a lot of really neat people here. So that was a good experience. So, yes, I'm learning about interresting.
Larry Mishkin: [00:07:48] We have a we have a similar thing here in Illinois, Jim, where the social equity only applies to your application for an adult use license. And everybody, of course, is looking for their social equity applicants, you know, who can who can team up with them and do it. But you touched on a funny thing, because one of the ways in Illinois you can be social equity is if you were previously a victim of the war on drugs and a victim is anyone who was arrested, you'll even have to be convicted. But if you were arrested for a misdemeanor or class for felony marijuana offense with no violence involved, hey, it's subject to a complete expungement under the act. And B, that gives you your social equity bonus points. So now we have the unique situation of guys going home and telling their mom, hey, mom, you know how embarrassed you are for all those years because I had a marijuana conviction. Guess what? That's my golden ticket to getting a license.
Jim Marty: [00:08:45] Yes, that's very true. And there was no shortage of convicted felons at my dinner last night. So, Larry, if you if you're looking for some people to falsify for social equity, I would recommend going to the last prisoner project dot org Web site. And maybe they can put you in contact with some people who are looking to line up with adult use to know them.
Larry Mishkin: [00:09:10] Sure. Now, that's a great thing. Yeah. We can talk for hours about this. You know, and everything that's going on behind the scenes with these social equity situations. I applaud the idea if it works. I think it's great. We'll just see what natural human tendency is in terms of how they're going to actually run these businesses down the road and what the backlash may or may not be. In Chicago, there's a lot of pressure right now to get companies with ownership that include people of color. So there's a lot of people watching this round that's out there right now to see how it turns out.
Jim Marty: [00:09:44] It's going to be a big thing here in Massachusetts. There's been some very vigorous debates on the wholesale and retail prices. And you know, what is the forecast, which really applies to our business of food less as we do a lot of five year forecasts and a very vigorous debate and differences of opinion.
Jim Marty: [00:10:04] Right now, wholesale is three thousand five hundred four thousand dollars a pound. And then at retail with your $50 ASU in Massachusetts, six thousand sixty five hundred in retail. So very high prices. And the big question is, you know, will prices come down and when? And the future, of course, is very hard to predict. But some people say that even though all these license holders get issued. And one hundred thousand square foot cultivation license is still going to be three or four years until they get to capacity, as one gentleman was saying that right now there's about 4 million square feet of cultivation in Massachusetts. And he figures just to meet the men and stop the shortages, that number should double to eight million square feet of cultivation. So there's plenty of room for these hundred thousand square, a couple of hundred thousand square footers, 100000 square foot of Cannabis max in Massachusetts. Anyway, that's what's been going on with me. I'm having a very interesting time here in Boston and seeing a lot of old friends and seeing a lot of clients.
Jim Marty: [00:11:17] So it's been a very productive week.
Dan Humiston: [00:11:22] I want to take a quick break to thank you for listening to today's show and to invite you to listen to all the other great MJBulls Cannabis podcast like Raising Cannabis Capital. The show, which features Cannabis entrepreneurs, are raising money to expand their organization. Tune in each week on Thursdays and Sundays to hear founders of Awesome Cannabis Company talking about their business and their fundraising plans. Who knows? Maybe you'll discover the future Amazon or Apple of Cannabis and the Raising Cannabis Capital podcast.
Larry Mishkin: [00:11:57] Switching over to our other side of the table for a minute. I know that you and I were talking and you would indicated to me that you two recently received your copy of Dave's Picks, 33 of the newest one of the day's picks series. And one of the things we were talking about, Jim, is this show that they put out from Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, which is about two hours west of Chicago towards the Iowa border. Northern Illinois has a great reputation as a school that's a very proud dad and pro Cannabis and all this other stuff. And this is a 1977 show. And I think you would agree with me that it's probably one of the one of the better dead shows that that they've ever cranked out. And it's wonderful that we can now get clean copies of it from the dead.
Jim Marty: [00:12:51] Yeah. A standout show in standup years for the Grateful Dead. And you have been listening to it out in my blog with a good sized volume and good volume on it. And Jerry's just absolutely soaring, Sovereign's, especially during that first set, Wimbledon on one of the best remember lines. Everts, as I read the liner notes in the trade tape trading days, this is one of the most sought after dead shows that people have recorded back in the time around, the time they were actually played. Yes.
Larry Mishkin: [00:13:26] And I believe it. I want to say that somewhere in my dusty, moldy collection of cassette tapes of dead shows, that I have a copy of this one, but I haven't gone looking yet. Yeah, this this is just such a tremendous show that that is completely at the top of their game. Jerry is just telling it all the way around. And you're right, that ramble on Rose's off is amazing. The first set closes with a great must have been the roses and FLETC grow. But for me, I think the highlight of the show is in the second set, about halfway through for the drums in space, they take into an estimated prophet eyes of the world. That's as good as any I've ever heard. Those nineteen seventy seven eyes that Jerry was playing or just hand out.
Jim Marty: [00:14:14] Yes. I love the eyes. The windows. Certainly one of my favorite dead tunes. And that's an excellent, excellent version. So I also have been enjoying that very much. No, Larry, I understand you have another speaking engagement this afternoon, and then I have a special guest that, Larry, you go first and tell us what you're doing this afternoon.
Larry Mishkin: [00:14:36] Well, thank you, Jim. Yeah, I'd have to hop off here in a minute, because I have to head out to the western suburbs of Chicago. I'm going to be a presenter today at the Building Owner and Management Association of the Chicago area. And they've asked me to come out and talk because we have a lot of commercial property owners who are being approached by groups that want to that that need space for their Cannabis facilities. Were about to have 75 new dispensaries come on line, 40 new craft rose, 40 new manufacturing facilities. They're all going to need real estate. And it makes sense that obviously people in the industry are interested in getting involved in it, but at the same time, just leery enough of what the status is that they want to be educated. So it's a good thing. We desperately need property owners who will do this. And I'm looking forward to going out there and having a chat with these guys today and hopefully getting all their questions answered forms so we can create some additional space for our businesses.
Jim Marty: [00:15:34] Very good. I can tell you in Massachusetts, the most desirable places are being snapped up because especially for retail, those retail, those tensions with the proper zoning. There's not that many places that qualify too close to a school, et cetera. Here's an interesting twist. The Massachusetts. They have a karate judo school as a school that can someone out of a shopping center. Really?
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:02] Wow, that's insurance. I have a name. I won't say the name of the town that has issues.
Jim Marty: [00:16:07] There's a Jud0 within a thousand feet of where he wants those within the retail chain. So good work out there on this thing because it is a real estate intensive industry. And with the setbacks in the zone and even in a big state like in the morning, your options are reasonable enough to be very limited.
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:28] That's true. And in fact, in the city of Chicago, you know, it's so dense with population and with schools and churches and everything that's just like they did with the medical around.
Larry Mishkin: [00:16:38] The Board of Aldermen in Chicago modified resorting to make it a 500 foot limit because there is really no place in Chicago you can be practically and not be within a thousand feet of a church or a school.
Jim Marty: [00:16:52] Right. Right. And here is even a little. More restrictive because it's not the front door which sometimes can squeeze you in if the front door turns out to be a thousand square feet away or if it's close, you could just move that front door. Here in Massachusetts, his property line to property line. So it makes it even more difficult to be properly zoned real estate.
Larry Mishkin: [00:17:13] Yes, it does. Yep. We got the same problem here. And, you know, luckily, the city has been cooperative in this regard and we haven't gotten too much blowback from that. So are the folks in the city will get to do what they do out in the suburbs? There's a little more room. Help it for us right now. The key is finding municipalities that have not opted out and that are willing to allow people to come in. And really, that's where these real estate guys, you know, make their money off their long standing property owners in a municipality. A lot of times they help the poor to be able to go in and talk to the city manager or the mayor and help convince them that, you know, this isn't such a bad thing that they should let it happen to their community. So we really we we like that we get them behind us and they understand what's going on. And hopefully they go out there and help us locate these properties. Everybody can be all set to go.
Jim Marty: [00:18:06] All right. Larry, well, I'll let you go. And then I will continue with this podcast from the Expo floor here at the New England Cannabis conference. And I will have as my special guest that's any more of the National Cannabis Industry Association?
Larry Mishkin: [00:18:21] Well, it sounds like a great interview. Jim, I'm a big fan of CIA. I know. Bethany, please say hello to her for me. And like all the other listeners, I'll have to download this episode of the podcast here, which you have.
Jim Marty: [00:18:34] Very good. So we'll let you go, Larry. And this is Jim Marty. And I will be taking a quick break here. I get set up to interview him.
Larry Mishkin: [00:18:42] Thanks, Jim. Have a great time out in Boston.
Jim Marty: [00:18:44] All right. So we'll Bethanie, nice to have you as a guest here on the Deadhead Cannabis show. You work for the National Cannabis Industry Association and tell us a little bit about what you do and what your organization does.
Bethany Moore: [00:19:01] Yeah, absolutely. Jim, thanks so much for having me on your show today as well, as you mentioned. I work at the National Cannabis Industry Association. I've been here for a little over six years. I started here in January of 2014, which we all know was when Colorado and Washington rolled out their adult use 21 cannabis laws, which was so exciting as an activist from the medical marijuana standpoint to see to see this happen. NTIA has existed since 2010 as an organization and now represents nearly 2000 cannabis businesses and ancillary businesses across the country. What we do mainly is advocacy at the federal level. We have a awesome government relations team in D.C.. They are hitting the pavement, talking to members of Congress on behalf of the businesses and the cannabis industry. Year round lobbying on our behalf for changes to cannabis policy reform that are desperately needed, like safe banking access and tax reform to 280 of the IRS code and and other pieces of legislation that that help this industry continue to move forward and be treated fairly, just like any other industry that operates in the United States. Excellent. Excellent. That's basically the big picture. There's a lot more that we do, too. We've got national conferences across the country to for people to come learn and hear from experts. And we do regional networking events across the country and have a lot of great resources on our website as well.
Jim Marty: [00:20:50] Yes. I've been a member of your organization that I think pretty much since the beginning when I met the executive director, Aaron Smith. And yeah, you do a lot of great things. Your conferences are very informative. A great place to find out what's happening. The latest and the greatest 2020 is an election year. What are some of the NCI is goals for 2020?
Bethany Moore: [00:21:16] Well, we would like to get a Cannabis friendly presidential candidate in in as our president. So we'll be handling that toward the end of a year. Really? What's in front of our plates here? The biggest staying, the Safe Banking Act, which is a standalone piece of Cannabis legislation passed through the House of Representatives last year. This is huge news. It's first time this has happened in this kind of way. So now it's in the Senate. And right now we're monitoring that process as they're hopefully not making more edits. To that bill, we want to make sure that the bill protects the Cannabis industry in the right way. And we'd like to get it passed through the Senate and signed into law. This would absolutely expand Cannabis businesses having access to safe banking. It would give banks more freedom to work with the Cannabis industry without without fear. So this would create a an incredible new relationship between the Cannabis industry, which is really cash heavy right now because of this banking problem. And there's a myriad of problems related to it being a cash heavy industry. I think we all know having a lot of cash floating around can attract criminal activity like robberies. So this is really important not only to give Cannabis businesses the ability to operate normally, but it's a public safety issue. So it's a pretty high priority.
Jim Marty: [00:22:59] So, yes, the cash thing has been a huge barrier. And the fact that we can't do the industry can't do credit cards or electronic payments in addition to having to deal with a lot of cash.
Bethany Moore: [00:23:12] Yes. Customers have to hit up the 80m before they purchase.
Jim Marty: [00:23:17] Well, as you were mentioning, the safe banking has passed the House. And we last fall and I've been doing some work on that myself. We had a fund raiser with Senator Rand Paul at your demmer office of the NCAA a couple of weeks ago. And Senator Paul was saying that they should get it out of committee and onto the floor of the Senate to be a good chance that the bill could get out of the Senate and over to President Trump's desk, where he'd be likely to sign it. So the big bottleneck seems to be in the Senate Finance Committee.
Bethany Moore: [00:23:55] Exactly right. That committee chairman is Senator Creepo. And we are, you know, lobbying him and his office and helping him understand our issues so that we can keep that bill looking really good.
Jim Marty: [00:24:11] Yes. Well, one of the things that I learned at the New England Cannabis conference that the NCAA put on is there's a lot of Cannabis bills there'll be on the ballot this fall. Also a lot of legislation, legislative action. States like even Alabama and Mississippi are considering some form of legal marijuana, mostly medical at this point. So there's a lot of things that are happening in 2020. And these issues all seem to poll 60 to 70 percent in favor. So hopefully our federal government will realize that this marijuana movement is here to stay. And the two things that would fix the industry, make it a normal industry. Obviously, the Safe Banking Act and then also being allowed to take all deductions and all drug dealer bill or dealer tax penalty from the 1980s still being applied today. When you factor in Hemp, virtually every state in the union has some form of legal Cannabis, whether it's CBD or THC or medical or adult use. And so. It really is time for the federal government to catch up with the rest of the country.
Bethany Moore: [00:25:35] Oh, yeah. What do we say the toothpaste isn't going back into the tube at this point, so let's move forward together.
Jim Marty: [00:25:42] , we let you go. One more question. The people want to get a hold of the National Cannabis Industry Association and perhaps be a member. How did they go about doing that?
Bethany Moore: [00:25:53] Sure. Well, head to our Web site, the cannabis industry dot org. And if you click the green button, it says join now that I'll take you to a page that gives an overview of our three levels of membership. And you can also head to the staff page where there's a staff directory and you can reach out to somebody in our membership or business development department if you want to talk to a human being and get some of those questions answered. So head to our Web site. Start there.
Jim Marty: [00:26:23] Very good. So. Well, thank you very much. Death anymore. Really appreciate your time this afternoon.
Jim Marty: [00:26:31] And this is Jim Marty scene over and for the dead head Cannabis Show.
Bethany Moore: [00:26:37] Thanks, Jim.
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