"Legendary Archivist Amplifies Live Music Experience: Unveiling Hidden Gems and Remastering Magic" Rob Hunt and Larry Mishkin are joined by Charlie Miller, known for his work in remastering soundboards and audience tapes of live music performances. They discuss Charlie's extensive experience and his passion for enhancing the quality of recordings. They also mention specific shows and musicians, such as Dead and Co., The Grateful Dead, and Steve Kimock. The conversation touches on various topics, including their personal experiences attending concerts and the challenges and techniques involved in the remastering process. Produced by PodConx Deadhead Cannabis Show - https://podconx.com/podcasts/deadhead-cannabis-show Larry Mishkin - https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin Rob Hunt - https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt Charlie Miller - https://twitter.com/charliemiller87 Charlie Miller - https://www.facebook.com/p/Charlie-Millers-Google-Drive-Links-100077329848889/ Jay Blakesberg - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg Recorded on Squadcast
"Legendary Archivist Amplifies Live Music Experience: Unveiling Hidden Gems and Remastering Magic"
Rob Hunt and Larry Mishkin are joined by Charlie Miller, known for his work in remastering soundboards and audience tapes of live music performances. They discuss Charlie's extensive experience and his passion for enhancing the quality of recordings. They also mention specific shows and musicians, such as Dead and Co., The Grateful Dead, and Steve Kimock. The conversation touches on various topics, including their personal experiences attending concerts and the challenges and techniques involved in the remastering process.
Deadhead Cannabis Show - https://podconx.com/podcasts/deadhead-cannabis-show
Larry Mishkin - https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
Rob Hunt - https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Charlie Miller - https://twitter.com/charliemiller87
Charlie Miller - https://www.facebook.com/p/Charlie-Millers-Google-Drive-Links-100077329848889/
Jay Blakesberg - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg
Rob (00:30.414)
Well, good afternoon, everyone. This is Rob Hunt coming to you from somewhere deep in Long Island Sound today. Hope everyone's having a great summer day. I'm super stoked because not only is it the final day of Dead and Co. tour today, but we're also joined by a person who has made live music that much more fun for all of us. We'll certainly go through kind of everything he's done in the business, but for all of you out there that are on archive.org or on re-listen and...
really try to get the best mixes of not just The Grateful Dead, but multiple other bands as well. Then you're very familiar with Charlie Miller's work. And I'm really excited that Charlie Miller's joining us today to talk about all the things that he's done, not just in terms of remastering soundboards and audience tapes, but also in terms of what he's done with Steve Kimach. So it should be a really, really fun show today. But before we get into that, I want to say hello to my co-host, Larry Mishkin. Larry, it's great to be back with you. And how's your day going, man?
Larry (01:24.206)
Great, Rob, it's wonderful to have you on the show. It always is. We got lots of great stuff to talk about. People get tired of just sharing me blab on all the time, so this gives us another good opinion and point of reference for some of the things we're gonna get into, including our guest today. Very, very excited about that. And you were able to reach out and get Charlie on the show, so let's dive in.
Charlie Miller (01:45.452)
How you doing?
Larry (01:48.291)
a pleasure to meet you, man. So happy to have you on the show.
Charlie Miller (01:51.052)
Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. I'm excited that there's other people that like to talk about this stuff as much as I do.
Larry (01:59.074)
Hehehe
Rob (01:59.214)
So Charlie, I got to say, man, when I think about the archivists out there, I always think there's not just David Lemieux, but I think there's Charlie Miller. And I mean that in the most complimentary way that David obviously gets the accolades for being the person that's handpicked by the organization. But in terms of the taper community, I don't think there's anyone that's got more respect out there than you do for the work that you've done. I have no idea how you find the time in the day with everything else you do.
to have remastered as many shows as you have and as brilliantly as you have to the point that, as I said to Larry, I won't even usually look at something unless I know that it's got the Charlie Miller Seal of Approval on Archive or on Re-Listened, which is, for years, I got my soundboards from tons of people. I had the 30 or 40 go-tos I knew exactly who I was sending XL2s to. Nowadays, it's all digitized. It's kind of Miller or Buster me, so I'm super, super stoked you're here with us.
Charlie Miller (02:50.912)
Right on man.
Rob (02:54.09)
So as I've told you, we kind of cover different shows today and obviously I was going to pick a show that you did the remastering on. There's no way I was doing one that didn't. But as we are now a solid, I think close to 50 years, I think we're 47 years past July 16th, 1976 from the Orpheum. A really, really fun show, kind of one that we've all spent our time in the Bay Area. So one that we all can appreciate being an SF.
But why don't we listen to our first clip, then we'll dive in and start asking you some questions. That sound cool?
Charlie Miller (03:27.296)
Sounds great.
Rob (04:10.69)
So that is obviously stronger than dirt or milk in the turkey or whatever you want to call it. And I picked that one because I don't think we've ever covered it on this show, Larry, of all the songs that we've put clips of. And I love the interplay obviously between Phil and Garcia. And Garcia is almost playing like a reggae scratch riff on that. So it's totally different than when you expect to hear from Garcia. It's not scaly. It's just kind of a little scratch like mini...
strums on that which is a really cool sound but I don't think that you know like sort of the blues raleigh like era I don't think milking the turkey really gets all that much credit but there's some really fun versions in 76 and 77.
Larry (04:46.474)
Yeah, for sure. You know, look, they created it, so it's out there. And, you know, probably didn't get played very often. In fact, I don't ever recall it being played at all at any time when I started seeing The Dead. So pretty much the 80s and into the 90s. But, you know, when the album came out, that, King Solomon's Marbles, I mean, you know, Phil started playing, I think, King Solomon's Marbles again a few times. And, you know, it's just fun music to listen to. I really enjoy it. And, you know, I get it. It's a little more formal and organized and complicated than the freestyle they like to just kind of come out and jam with.
But certainly when they take the time to do it, and this is a great sample of it, it adds a whole nother dimension to the show, I think.
Charlie Miller (05:24.944)
It's pretty cool. It's hard to believe it's been 47 years. You know, it just it's just so long ago. It makes me feel so old.
Larry (05:33.663)
Charlie, when did you first start going to shows?
Charlie Miller (05:37.172)
I started listening to Grateful Dead in 77, 78, and I started going to shows in 79. It's kind of funny how it happened. I went to school at Rob Bleedstein, and we all know Rob Bleedstein. He was in the same class as my sister, who was two years older than me.
Larry (05:51.559)
Rob Bleetsdeed again. Sure.
Rob (05:52.466)
We've had him on the show. Yeah, yeah, he's been a guest of ours.
Charlie Miller (06:00.352)
and he came over to my house with some friends to hang out with my sister and some other people and then they split and when he left, they were hanging out in the backyard and he left this Maxell cassette back there and I noticed it started to rain so I went out and I grabbed the tape so his tape wouldn't get destroyed and I listened to it. And that was the King Biscuit Flower Hour broadcast of 10-6-77.
Larry (06:23.214)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Rob (06:24.283)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (06:26.916)
And that was like the first thing I heard. That and my friend forced me to listen to Live Dead, which at the time I complained about. But yeah, it's just like, you know, it's this really long song. I was kind of, you know, get on with it type, you know, music back then. But I just, yeah, so 77 to 79 was the formative years for me. But in 79,
Larry (06:34.306)
Sure, we all did the first time we heard it.
Rob (06:35.35)
Yeah, all the feedback, yeah.
Charlie Miller (06:51.828)
My first show was November 2nd, 1979, and my birthday is November 3rd, so when we walked out of the show, I had just turned 16. And that was just a pretty cool way to start the whole thing.
Rob (07:05.41)
So you were Midland from the beginning. You weren't Keith and Donna's final days of 79.
Charlie Miller (07:07.292)
Yeah. No, you know, I never saw Keith. You know, Donna was with Zero, you know, so I worked with her a whole bunch of times over the years and she was even at my wedding. She's just an awesome person. I love her. She actually sang at my wedding with Steve Kimmach, which is kind of funny, but I never saw her with The Grateful Dead. My first show was supposed to be 11079.
Larry (07:28.032)
Wow.
Charlie Miller (07:33.572)
and my friends just never picked me up and took me and looking back, I should really go kill them for that. That was, you know, just.
Rob (07:39.854)
It's, that's funny. Our old cohost, his first show was 215.79 from Springfield, which has that amazing Miracle Shakedown Transition Jam. It's such a good one. And so he always kind of like let us know that he was the older statesman in this group. Cause I think Larry, your first show was 83, is that right? 82, yeah, and I was 88.
Charlie Miller (07:49.562)
That's a cool one.
Larry (07:59.038)
82 Ventura.
Charlie Miller (08:02.549)
And so I have right next to me audience cassette masters from those shows that had never circulated. And some guys sent me his tapes and I just was listening to them the other day. And they'll be coming out soon, you know.
Larry (08:13.886)
Wow. Okay. Good. I, it's hard to find a good copy of that show. I love those shows. It was great.
Charlie Miller (08:20.164)
It's a tough situation. You're recording right off the water there and just the wind and just the humidity and everything. It really makes it tough. But when Joni Walker copied Dan Healy's tape, it ended up being an audience recording. He didn't even copy the soundboard. He just had an audience for some reason, which we don't know about. So it's one of those things like, where is the soundboards, man?
Larry (08:43.491)
Wow.
Larry (08:47.746)
Wow, no, absolutely not. It was a great way to break it all in. My buddy Mikey took me out there. We had a ball, you know, ate some good stuff and saw God.
Charlie Miller (08:56.032)
The Crazy Fingers bust out? I mean jeez, that was... Oh, you went in 82? Yeah, that was the Crazy Fingers bust out. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I didn't see it till the garden in the fall, which was pretty fantastic, but I always loved that song.
Larry (09:02.442)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Rob (09:12.53)
You just brought something up that I got to jump right into. So people send you their masters and just say, hey, go to town on this thing. What's your process from the time you get a tape to the time that we end up seeing it on an archive?
Charlie Miller (09:24.784)
You know, in the last probably 15 years, I've received like no exaggeration, like way, way over 10,000 masters, whether they've been dads, PCMs or cassettes, you know, and, and yeah, it's crazy. And that doesn't even include all the stuff that I got from when I got Tom Pearson's collection with all the soundboard masters in there. That was a couple of thousand tapes right on its own. Um,
Larry (09:39.266)
God.
Charlie Miller (09:53.212)
It's like, you know, they just say, please, you know, do your thing and I'll transfer them. I'll digitize them and, you know, we'll pitch correct it because, you know, it's analog. Sometimes things are really fast or really slow. And if there's, you know, usually there's a tape flip somewhere during music, even if it's in drum space, you know, or sometimes it's just in a bad spot, you know. We patch the flips. And if you want your patch to work, you, the patch.
Larry (10:12.566)
right.
Charlie Miller (10:20.016)
source and the main source need to both be at the same pitch. Otherwise, it sounds like the caution patch from the Live Dead Box set. You know, one second you go in this way and all of a sudden it's just this jarring, you know. But, you know, in all fairness, I wasn't always doing it as well as I am now. I started probably about 17, 18 years ago really getting OCD about making every little thing right. But there was a point where I had...
Larry (10:27.707)
hahahaha
Rob (10:28.446)
Hahahaha
Charlie Miller (10:50.012)
so many masters and I just wanted to just get them out. So I just kind of just got them out. But you know, you got to track marks, fix levels, whatever it was. Because 99% of the time the person taping it was usually high. You know and...
Larry (10:53.879)
What's
Larry (11:04.798)
Right. So you saw your first show in 79. When did you start taping or focusing on taping?
Charlie Miller (11:09.692)
83, well I started in 1978, me and my sister, I grew up on Long Island and me and my sister went and saw the band Boston at Nassau Coliseum and I was like 35th row on the floor standing on a chair holding up a little Radio Shack recorder and I recorded 11, 24, 78 off of WNEW that night and I lived in Port Washington. But um.
I did this Spring Tour 82 and I had a recorder and I was going to bring it with me and decided not to. I just wanted to have fun. Spring Tour 83, a couple of shows into the tour, I was at UVM. April 13, 1983 in Burlington, I was sitting right in front of the board and there was literally a chain of cassette decks, D5s, that went all the way around me.
Rob (11:49.538)
Yeah, 83. Yeah, it's a Patrick Jim.
Charlie Miller (12:01.944)
Actually, it was Nakamichi microphones and this guy had a reel to reel and it was a bunch of D5s patched out of it and they said you want to patch in and I was like man I wish I had a deck. So on the way to the next show in Rochester I stopped and I bought a D6 and taped the rest of the tour and it kind of started from there. So it was 415.83 is when it started.
Larry (12:24.866)
believable.
Rob (12:25.262)
And so does your get to the point where you're able to pass off eight balls of blow to Healy and patch directly in or that never happened for you?
Charlie Miller (12:30.284)
No, no, I would have been, you know what, I would have honestly kept the blow and just been happy with my audience. You know, I was, yeah. Plus, I didn't even know, it never occurred to me to even ask him and that was the thing, so I didn't know back then. Um, at CalExpo in 91, I was talking to Healy before the show, we were smoking, uh, I had pounded the pot, so me and him were getting high, you know, outside the taping section before the show.
Larry (12:31.839)
Oh, shit.
Larry (12:35.502)
..
Rob (12:38.014)
I'm sorry.
Charlie Miller (12:59.388)
And I was asking him about the sound problems in the beginning of the Vegas show the week before and he was telling me what happened with Santana Sound Guy leaned on the board and messed up some settings and that's why the delay stacks weren't on and half the PA wasn't on and it was all this other stuff. And I was standing there holding my D5 and I was getting ready to patch into my microphones and he just stood there and looked at me and he looked at the deck and he looked at me like he was shocked. Why was I not asking for a board patch?
And, you know, it just never even occurred to me that it's just something you can do. And I just went and plugged into my microphones and, you know, now I got the soundboard masters of the whole year, which is funny. But.
Rob (13:40.678)
But he ended up getting in trouble for that, like not soon after that, right? I mean like 92, 93 he was a...
Charlie Miller (13:43.848)
was in 93, the two shows in Chapel Hill. Yeah, yeah, those shows. I did the Nassau Coliseum run on that tour. But I don't know if he got in trouble as much as people say he did. I don't know. I think, you know, I bet at that point, I think they were all probably just so sick of each other.
Rob (13:52.714)
Yeah, the Dean Smith Center shows.
Charlie Miller (14:10.436)
You know, because I know there was a lot of I always used to hear that there was a lot of complaints from various band members about various things in the mix that, you know, Bobby didn't like this stuff. Healy did with the vocals and felt he was in, you know, this person wasn't in the mix enough or this or that. And then somebody told me that they had heard they had always thought that because Healy is a musician in his own right. He's a great guy. I learned a lot from working with him when we did some shows with Dark Star Orchestra.
But people told me that he wanted to be up there being the lead singer. And I just thought that was absurd. I just never, never saw that in him. Why would anybody want to? I'd be so happy just mixing these guys. But how many, after 20 plus years, you got to get a little burnt of it.
Larry (14:51.755)
Right.
Rob (15:01.674)
Hey Charlie, how long you going to ride with DS04?
Larry (15:01.923)
Baby.
Charlie Miller (15:05.832)
You know, in 2000, I've been friends with them. In 2003, Kimok did a festival at Hookahville and DSO played right, either right before us or right after us. I don't remember what it was. And after, no, they played after us because after our set, we stayed around for their set. The band left, but me and Ariel, who we were touring, we were starting working with Kimok at that point in 2002, we had no more shows.
and we had the RV with us and the band was just flying home. So they said, here, here's our itinerary. Here's two all access passes. Come finish the tour with us. And we had nothing to do. We had like two weeks to kill before Kimok tour started again. So we spent a few weeks on the road with them and we call up Kimok, had him come in and play a show with them, and they let me turn their stage into a recording studio. And, you know, it was just crazy, the stuff we got to do. And they even had me and Ariel sit in the next night. They played.
One of the early April 78 shows where they had the Kitchen crew coming out during drums, they played it. It was either 4'6 or 4'7, 78, and they brought me and Ariel out and we did a whole bunch of percussion with the drummers during that show. And then was it, you know, we just became really good friends and, you know, me and Rob Eaton being tapers, we were just always talking about tapes and he was just constantly sending me dats, you know. I'd come home from Kim Ok Tour, there'd be like 20, 30 dats from Rob Eaton waiting for
Larry (16:20.728)
Wow.
Charlie Miller (16:35.288)
And in 2006, they played Three Nights at the Fillmore. And they had Jerry's guitar there, which was a big thing back then, because everybody in the world hadn't seen it by then. They had Brent's custom keyboard there. Brent's widow, his wife was there, his daughter was there, Bob Weir was playing, Dan Healy was doing sound. It was like the closest thing to a dead show since Jerry had died. And they asked me to come in and record it.
So I called up Betty and I asked her to come do it with me. And so me and Betty just, we multitracked the whole thing. And I had enough equipment to do Kimok, which is 24 tracks. DSO needs 48. Cause believe it or not, they have 24 tracks just with the drums, which is kind of crazy if you think about it. So Betty got some stuff from Bob Matthews. And you know, I was just doing that. I, Healy was...
Larry (17:21.493)
Oh.
Charlie Miller (17:31.832)
was doing sound and I think it was the first purely digital Healy soundboard recording because what I did was I plugged the laptop off the soundboard because it was, they didn't have the USB things back then like they do now, it was a little adapter thing I had and he had said people had recorded his speeds but nobody had ever taken a digital out of a digital board so I made this recording and it was kind of cool just seeing how he does things you know and
It's wild, man.
Rob (18:03.223)
So randomly, tell me if I'm crazy. I think you and I met in an airport one time because you had a DSO sticker or a zero sticker on your case. And in front of me or behind me in the security line, I think I looked at you and said, we are everywhere, or something to that effect. And I said, did you just come from this place? He said, no, I was just out with DSO. It was like there's a festival that was happening in that town. But that was before I realized you lived in San Diego.
Charlie Miller (18:16.638)
Probably, yeah.
Charlie Miller (18:24.9)
Um, Oh yeah. You know what? They, they do that, that festival is labor day weekend and they played, um, it was in 2006 and seven and Kimock used to, they used to bring Kim Ox band in there and the weird, this is when, this is when, um, Mark Karen had to leave rats off to deal with his cancer. And Bob, we are, we're in the middle of zero tour.
And Bob Weir called up Kim Ack and said, I need you to come play some shows. So one day I would be on Zero Tour with Kim Ack and the next day I'd be on Rat Dog Tour with Kim Ack. And we were just bouncing back and forth. And in the middle of it, we managed to get a few days off from the Rat Dog thing to finish the Zero thing. And we did this festival with DSO. It was a three day festival, but if you got there the day before...
you know when they were setting everything up they did a whole set of just non-grateful dead stuff for the people who were there and the coolest thing about this festival was on Monday when everything was breaking down it was Nelson Lake's quarry or something whatever Nelson Ledges quarry that's what it was and they didn't kick anyone out you can stay as long as you want to spend the day relax recover from the whole thing it was like people like us running it so it was like the coolest vibe
Rob (19:41.872)
Nice.
Charlie Miller (19:41.897)
Yeah.
Larry (19:42.186)
Post Alpine Valley parking lot where they're kicking you out 10 minutes after the show is over.
Charlie Miller (19:46.288)
Yeah, you know, one of the shows I was at this past year with Fish, they were kicking me out of the venue and I was breaking down my taping gear and the guy's like, what's taking you so long? I'm like, oh, I got a security guard that is interrupting me. He won't allow, you know, if you guys just leave us all alone, we can just get out of here quicker. It's like, you know what Kim Ack always says, you know, we're like bees. Just leave us alone. You won't get stung.
You know, we're okay. We can do our own thing. We know what to do, most of us at least. We know what to do. We know how to get out of here. Just, you know, them trying to hurry us up while we slow this down.
Larry (20:25.358)
Are you still working with fish?
Charlie Miller (20:27.176)
Oh, I don't work with Phish. I'm actually, I worked with... Okay, I did this tour. I'm still with Kimok. I've been with Kimok for like 21, 22 years now. But we did a tour in 2006. Actually, we did a show on 420 in New York City and it was Rhythm Devils. And it sold out in like minutes and they didn't even announce the lineup. They just said Rhythm Devils. And nobody knew what the lineup was gonna be. And it was Mickey and Billy. And it was Steve Kimok. And it was Mike Gordon from Phish.
and a couple other random people there. And, you know, it sold out. Like I said, it was this really, really fantastic energy. So Mickey had the same manager as Kimmok and Mickey really liked my recording. So they did a summer tour with this band and they brought me along. We had a week of rehearsals in Trays Barn. And, you know, after, after the week of rehearsals, we went back to Mike Gordon's house, we had a dinner party. We listened to some recordings and stuff and, you know,
Larry (21:16.45)
Ha ha ha!
Charlie Miller (21:24.072)
and we all hung out and then we did the tour. And I became friends with Mike Gordon there. And we were talking about Grateful Dead. And he said, I said, what was your first show? And he said, it was one of the five nights at Oakland Auditorium in December, 1982. Well, I had Joni Walker, soundboard cassette masters of that run sitting at my desk at home. So when I got home, I sent him CDs of the whole run because I knew one of those would be the first show.
So he gets in a car, his girlfriend, it's before they were married, he gets in his car, and he starts driving from Vermont with the CDs. He calls me up a couple of days later, he's in Kentucky, they've been just driving nonstop listening to these discs. And he's like, I realized Kimok's playing there, can you put me on the list? So we put him on the list, and it was some festival that got rained out and flooded, so we never got to hook up, but.
While at his house we talked about some polyrhythmic stuff because there's some really cool things going on where you know the drummer's got this beat going but there's other beats happening here at the same time and so and he mentioned some Fishtune and I didn't know what he was talking about because I was not into Fishtune, no clue and he goes you don't know Fishtune. I said I'm standing in the guy's kitchen I'm like oh I'm so embarrassed I'm like no I tried it you know I don't get it and he said he understood that he's you know if you ever want to go to a show.
I just saw my 100th show this past April. I just kept going because these guys treat me so nice. I mean, they just treat me so well. My show-off management comes over, are you okay? Is there anything you need? Did you get in okay? Was everything just your tapered tickets, everything good? And then they told me about the Baker's Dozen. You know, I'm like, am I like? And I went and did the Baker's Dozen and I've seen like almost 100 shows just since the Baker's Dozen. So...
When I go, I'm friends with Chris Corot, a lot of the fish crew is with Kim Och's crew over the years. So I just know so many people there. So, you know, they let me put my mic stand, Chris will let me put it in his booth or something. And so, you know, when I'm taping, I'm taping for me, or actually I'm taping because my wife says I need to tape because there's a lot of people out there that want to hear my recording. So I should at least do it for them, for the community. My wife's a taper too, by the way, I should mention.
Larry (23:45.62)
Oh, sure.
Rob (23:46.018)
That's awesome.
Charlie Miller (23:46.692)
Yeah, so, you know, I kind of do the fish thing. It's a me thing, you know, I'm not looking to work for them. It's just kind of, you know, yeah.
Rob (23:57.99)
So when you get tapes, when someone sends you a master and sends you whatever it is you get in the mail, what's your process to take that and make it sound infinitely better, which you've done for thousands of recordings?
Charlie Miller (24:09.36)
It's a lot of people think that it's a lot of like the soundboards that you know, there's something I'm doing that's making it better. 99% of the time is I have a better source tape to start with. You know, where I'll have the actual cassette where I can do a high resolution transfer instead of some old dat that was done on it. Someone shitty dag, you know, I'll align the head with the, I'll do the azimuth adjustment. I have a Nox CR7A.
a couple years ago got the knock for $2,300. This thing looks so new. And it's kind of crazy that now they're going for like, like three grand these knocks. But, um, you know, the CR7A has got the most natural sound and it's also that pitch correction really makes things sound more accurate, um, balancing the levels. And it's the converters in my rack, the Tascam, uh, DSD recorder is just, the clarity is just insane.
It's got a sample rate of 5.6 million as opposed to 44,100 of a CD, you know. So it really DSD is the only digital format that will capture that analog warmth. And even when I'm dumbing it down to CD quality or 2496, you can still hear the difference.
Rob (25:32.182)
That's super cool. Yeah, I've always wondered because I think my belief that David Lemieux is to the actual soundboard of The Grateful Dead, what you are to the taper section. You know, I think that, you know...
Charlie Miller (25:43.164)
Yeah, he's doing a great job. You know, there's a lot of people who have made some comments on my tour and said, oh, they wish that I had that job. Well, I'm glad I don't, because if you think about it, if I worked for the Grateful Dead, do you think I would be able to put out all these soundboard masters? You know, it's one of those things. I worked for the Grateful Dead series radio channel doing mastering of shows for them.
Rob (25:53.954)
I'm out.
Rob (26:00.286)
Right. Yeah.
Charlie Miller (26:10.656)
when they first launched, David Gans had hooked me up with that thing, but that stopped. There's been a lot of times I've been contacted by somebody saying, hey, we're putting out this Grateful Dead box set, do you have a patch source? So like the, I think it's 5777, there's a real flip in, I want to say around and around. So that's that patch I had.
I sent them the patch and they liked it and they asked if they can get the original tape. So I referred them to Matt Smith who had the original tape so they can do a high resolution transfer of it. So you know, like they contacted me for the October 78 Dick's Picks to see if I had a patch for that brutal cut in Stella Blue from 1021 to 78, which I didn't, but apparently Rob Eaton has one now.
Rob (26:59.863)
I-I-I-I-
Rob (27:03.282)
I've never considered that that's the way these things go down. You go around going, okay, who's got that patch who actually has one decent section that we need to put in? And by the way, Rob Eaton lived right down the street from me in Edwards, Colorado. He and I would have drinks all the time together at the Crazy Mountain Brewery. So shout out to Rob and Crazy Mountain. Really good guy.
Charlie Miller (27:13.92)
Yeah.
He's a great guy. He's truly, truly a great guy. Yeah, it's you know, Bob Menke is a person who has a lot of tapes that they I know they check with and the thing is they know a lot of the band members and the crew members or the family or the office people, the management, a lot of their tapes have worked their way back to me, you know, and like
Rob (27:28.094)
That's...
Rob (27:42.467)
Well, that's it.
Charlie Miller (27:43.572)
the sound company, you know, Don Pearson from Ultrasound, you know, like I said, there was thousands of Grateful Dead cassette masters in there. And I offered them back to the vault after I was done transferring them. I contacted David Lemieux and I told them, here's the list of the videos, here's a list of the audio stuff and the digital stuff and other things. And they had just gotten the Betty Reels back thanks to Rob Eaton, you know, like within the previous year.
And they were like so focused on that. They didn't care at all about the stuff I had. So I just put it all out, you know, because it needed to be done.
Rob (28:20.43)
That's a great segue into our next audio clip, Dan Homiston, because Bob Menke, I think, was the original recording of what we're listening to today before you remastered this one. And it kind of coincided with the final day of Dead & Co. tour today. I was kind of thinking to myself, how many different people have actually played with this band and how many different people have been involved with this band? You just named a whole bunch of people on the sound side. So let's get a quick clip of the playing the band reprise.
Charlie Miller (29:42.604)
That's awesome.
Rob (29:44.138)
What do you think, Larry?
Larry (29:44.582)
stuff. Love it. Love it. Who doesn't like a good playing in the band?
Rob (29:50.392)
I love the reprises from that era because the really mellow slow jam that would lead into it before they came back in was like a build up for two or three minutes before they actually popped it back in to play the reprise. In later years, it basically was just come thundering back in without really much of a build. But in 76, it was a much, much slower build up to the reprise.
Larry (30:13.934)
I love the reprise. That's such a good part of it all. And as I tell my kids, there was a play prize before there was a tweet prize. So...
Charlie Miller (30:22.364)
Yeah, absolutely. That's what I try to tell them, but...
Larry (30:27.114)
Right? I mean, I love fish. I'm going to go see him in Chicago. Just, just got my tickets. So you'll be here. Great. Well, we'll have to hook up them.
Charlie Miller (30:30.922)
Me too!
Charlie Miller (30:34.846)
I'm taping the whole tour. I'm taping the garden shows, I'm taping dicks, and I'm taping the whole full tour.
Larry (30:40.766)
Excellent, excellent, excellent. Well, good, we'll love to see you in Chicago. That'll be fun.
Charlie Miller (30:44.46)
Bye-bye.
Rob (30:46.51)
So let's talk about Dead & Co. Final night tonight of this tour. I don't think any of us here think it's the last Dead & Co. show, but this is the official end of an era. And there's a lot of speculation on what the final tune is going to be. I'll put it out there that I think Ripple is probably the most appropriate, but I don't know what your thoughts are on what they're closing with. But is this band going to keep playing together? Is this band, like Jay Lane seems to have stepped in where Bill left off and...
What do we think is happening here and what do you think the final song will be tonight?
Larry (31:19.875)
Charlie?
Charlie Miller (31:20.428)
I think they're definitely gonna play more shows. I mean, they didn't say it's the final show, they said it's the final tour, right? And like Mickey said, this isn't the final anything. But I mean, I can't see, I understand these guys are older than us, and I understand that, but I can't see them stopping. I mean, this is telling Mickey hard to stop drumming, you know, for...
for live audiences, I can't see that, or Bob Weir to stop. I have a feeling we'll be seeing more local stuff like how Phil does a lot of that Terrapin Crossroad type stuff. I have a feeling there'll be a lot more of that, maybe some Warfield stuff, which would be nice. But I got a prediction about what I think the final thing might be. I mean.
Larry (32:09.142)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (32:12.968)
I thought like a ripple not fade away, not fade away ripple, something like that. But I just thought about these other songs I was thinking that would be so great for this final show, stuff like New Potato Caboose, some of the really old stuff, you know, Alligator. You know?
Larry (32:26.274)
hahahaha
Larry (32:30.722)
That would really be sticking it to Phil, though, to play New Potato Caboose, right? I mean, I was thinking they would just do Box of Rain again. They've already got experience with that one. Or.
Rob (32:31.39)
Viola Lee.
Charlie Miller (32:32.608)
Yep. Yeah.
Charlie Miller (32:38.813)
Yeah, you know.
Rob (32:39.895)
Except hard to do box without fill there, right? I mean, like, I was thinking the same thing. Yeah.
Charlie Miller (32:42.707)
It's hard.
Larry (32:42.886)
Yeah, well, what about they could do addicts though? There wasn't that. That's the last one they played at soldier field in the reunion shows.
Rob (32:47.774)
It was. It was, yeah. And Box obviously was the last one they played in 95, you know, for the final Grateful Dead show. But, you know, kind of where they are now. The other thing I was thinking would be the weight, because it allows all of them to sing. And that's it. Yeah. So...
Charlie Miller (32:55.966)
Yeah.
Larry (33:00.626)
Oh, yeah.
Charlie Miller (33:01.344)
That's a good point. That's a good one.
Larry (33:04.15)
Although the real question is who's going to be on stage with them at that time. I think.
Rob (33:08.182)
That is a good question.
Charlie Miller (33:08.544)
Um, you know, that's a good question. That really is. Um, I, I don't know. I don't think there'll be any guests. I really don't.
Larry (33:16.142)
every now and then.
Rob (33:20.191)
Well, I guess they've had this whole tour as Dave Matthews or Four Toons, right?
Charlie Miller (33:23.496)
Yeah.
Larry (33:24.214)
It's pretty big.
Rob (33:27.064)
That's a good one.
Larry (33:28.051)
That's coming in playing hard. I like nothing wrong with that. I've listened to that stuff. That's pretty cool stuff. Very cool.
Rob (33:33.806)
Yeah, it definitely is, but look, I never thought Dead & Co was going to last more than two years, much less eight. The fact that we're still doing this is pretty amazing to me. The fact that we actually have had three guys stay until this tour and losing Billy was kind of a blow.
Larry (33:51.639)
Yeah. Charlie, I got to ask you about that. Creative differences. They played together for 50 years. This is their sixth or seventh year of playing as Deninco. They announced this is the final tour and all of a sudden out of nowhere there's creative differences.
Charlie Miller (34:05.852)
I don't believe the creative differences thing. I've heard people say things that I don't know if they're true so I would hate to even repeat them as speculation. But you know, I don't know. I'm shocked by it, quite honestly. These guys have lasted so many years and it's like now you're gonna do it.
Larry (34:16.354)
Okay, that's fair.
Larry (34:28.896)
Right.
Larry (34:32.718)
And then what, a few weeks later, he was playing with Billy and the kids down in New Orleans, either right before or right after Denneco played. He's healthy.
Charlie Miller (34:36.468)
Yeah. I was down there for the, I was down there for the Kimmok shows and everybody was talking about how great Billy's show was, you know? But...
Rob (34:47.734)
Yeah, I mean, that's what I mean. We obviously knew that it wasn't for health reasons because he was out there playing. It's the only time I've been friends with Stephanie for a long time. It's the only time I've attempted to call Stephanie, but like I haven't spoken to her in four years. I'm not gonna call up like, hey, how you been? Like what's up with your father-in-law? So I kind of let that one be hoping that it would come out, but either way, I hope Billy's doing well. And speaking of people doing well, shout out I think to our friend Stanley Mouse who has recently suffered a stroke.
Charlie Miller (34:52.052)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (35:14.505)
Yeah.
Rob (35:16.214)
you know, devastating to the community for someone, anytime you hear of someone in the community being sick or sort of that Black Peter moment of, you know, everyone needing to go run and see, but much love and affection to Stanley Mouse.
Charlie Miller (35:30.966)
Yeah.
Larry (35:31.31)
Check out his artwork if you don't know who we're talking about.
Rob (35:35.878)
Yeah, I mean, if you, yeah, I mean, of that crew, I think Rick Griffin, Stanley, you know, Kelly, those guys did so much cool stuff in the late 60s, and I don't think there'd be a psychedelic movement without those guys, and I don't think the Grateful Dead would have gotten the same notoriety, and it wasn't just the Grateful Dead, but a lot of the psychedelic artists in the late 1960s, early 70s owe a huge debt to the artwork of that school of art. So, you know, I'm.
Larry (35:36.354)
You'll recognize it right away.
Rob (36:01.942)
really truly hope that Stanley pulls through and is back doing art again.
Charlie Miller (36:07.913)
We've all had those posters, you know, those Stanley Mouse posters and the Mouse Kelly stuff. Yeah, all that stuff. Yeah.
Larry (36:18.67)
Everybody's getting old, man. It happens even to the grateful dead. Hard to believe, but true.
Charlie Miller (36:21.418)
Yeah, you know, I sometimes wonder if Jerry were still alive, what would they be playing? What songs would have made their way back, you know?
Rob (36:33.794)
You know what's crazy about that, Charlie, is I think about it now that if they were still playing, like the days between would be a 28 or 29 year old song at this point, you know, we still think of that as being like sort of the last of the new songs. And like I joke about with Larry all the time that, you know, the end of the Grateful Dead was really just mid career now for the rest of those artists, you know, for Mickey that was like, you know, he's played 30 years after 30 years before. It wasn't, you know, we always think of that as the end. 95 is the end.
Larry (36:41.931)
Right, oh yeah.
Charlie Miller (36:52.473)
Yeah. Yep.
Rob (36:59.682)
For those guys as musicians, they think about it like, yeah man, that was midway through my career. And so really, it is totally crazy.
Charlie Miller (37:03.792)
Yeah, that's crazy man.
Larry (37:07.054)
Well, it's true, but think about the rate that Trey is what? Already five or six years older than Jerry was when he died. And he's going stronger than ever. I mean, the
Charlie Miller (37:14.168)
Yeah
Rob (37:17.374)
And as a band, they've played 40 years together. They're already 10 years further along almost than the Grateful Dead were when they stopped in 95. So I mean, I heard a rumor two days ago, which hopefully is now truly unconfirmed and not true. But there's like thing going around Twitter saying that Widespread Panic had called it quits, you know, after 30 something years. And I was like, there's no way that's true. And I fortunately went out there and scoured the Internet and found nothing else to verify. So I'm going to say that it's complete nonsense. Yeah. So.
Charlie Miller (37:19.508)
Yeah.
Larry (37:36.514)
Whoa.
Charlie Miller (37:40.252)
Yeah, I think that's a fake thing. Yeah. You know, I had something I wanted to say about the days between thing. Back in 93, I was at Oakland Coliseum. And I got in early the first night. And February, yeah, February 93, I got in early the first night. Got in super early the second night. And when I got in, I was like, oh, my god.
I had the taping equipment with me and they were sound checking and they were playing they play lazy river road and they were playing days between and I had never heard it because they had never played it and for a second you know I thought they were doing mountains of the moon because it has that kind of same sound in the beginning so I'm like sitting there and Jerry starts singing days between and I got like tears in my eyes this is so freaking beautiful so I'm like slowly pulling out the microphones and the security comes up and says come on.
man, you know. I'm a taper, you know, I had to try. I had to try. So I couldn't, I couldn't record it, but I got to witness it. And then that night they debuted it. So it was one of those things that I got to see them play it before they played it live. And that's the only time that ever happened with The Grateful Dead where they played, I got to see them play something before it was live.
Larry (38:41.482)
Right, of course you did.
Larry (38:57.143)
Was it?
Rob (38:57.188)
That was February 93 at Oakland Coliseum, wasn't it, for Chinese New Year or Mardi Gras?
Charlie Miller (38:59.804)
Yep. That was the Mardi Gras. Yeah. Yep.
Larry (39:04.502)
Was it as beautiful when they played it live as it was when they were practicing it?
Charlie Miller (39:07.668)
You know, I hate to say it, I had a backstage pass and I spent a lot of the first set of that show, I spent a lot of time that night backstage playing pinball, eating food, watching the Saturday Night Live and doing drugs I shouldn't have been doing. And I was running back and forth and I was like a kid in a candy store. And I mean, I saw it live, but I was a little bit too messed up to, you know, on certain drugs to really appreciate its full value.
But I then went out to the East Coast and I saw it at NASA. And that was really just, I really got it then.
Rob (39:44.718)
I saw that whole East Coast 93 spring tour on the East Coast. I missed the shows in Oakland, but then I caught the Cal Expos, the Shorelines, the Vegas' and then the whole East Coast March tour. So I got like, of the first days between, I think I caught like 11 of the first 12.
Charlie Miller (39:53.91)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (39:59.168)
That's funny. I saw 44 shows that year. And the crazy part is, is the shows that I missed were the ones, you know, I live in San Francisco. The ones I missed were most of the, you know, local shows because I'd come home from tour and I'd go off on these whatever. It was a different, different life back in the nineties.
Larry (39:59.746)
Ha ha.
Larry (40:03.47)
Wow.
Larry (40:22.634)
Yes, it was.
Rob (40:25.07)
Well, should we talk any weed at all? Or is it today should just be a grateful dead day, Larry? And so there's times where we sort of forget that we've got another part of our show, but there we go. So there we go. So obviously, Charlie, you certainly haven't stopped smoking weed, and that big colas are always a nice thing to look at. Well done, my man.
Charlie Miller (40:32.98)
Heheheheheheheheheheh!
Larry (40:34.139)
Yeah, no, I think we should, because we have some interesting things. We do have one or two interesting things to talk about. Dan.
Charlie Miller (40:44.527)
Yeah, I had a
Charlie Miller (40:48.584)
You know, I had stopped for a little while, for about 12 years or so, where I was completely clean of everything. And then I just started smoking pot again because it just, it doesn't affect my recovery of other things in any way. You know, I haven't had a drink since December 31st, 1996. And you know, pot doesn't interfere with my life like other...
Larry (41:14.039)
Well.
Charlie Miller (41:18.548)
drugs have. So I, you know, I have no problem smoking it. Living in California, it's, you know, it's just so free. So
Rob (41:23.438)
We are all.
Rob (41:28.382)
We're all strong believers, all believers that alcohol is by far the more dangerous drug. I don't think there's any question about that at all. So it's, you know, we spend our lives advocating for cannabis and for responsible cannabis use in that, you know, it's not a gateway. Every dumb thing I've ever done in my life has started with booze. It hasn't started with weed.
Larry (41:30.975)
Yes, sir.
Charlie Miller (41:33.436)
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Charlie Miller (41:45.752)
everything that I, my problem wasn't with alcohol, my problem was that after I had to a drink or so, I needed cocaine and when the cocaine ran out, I needed more cocaine or money to get more cocaine and then that led to other things which led to other things but none of it ever had anything to do with me smoking pot and you know.
Rob (41:53.89)
Great.
Rob (41:59.522)
Right.
Rob (42:05.608)
But yeah, it's two scotches and you're like, let's get an eight bottle, it'll last all night. And like 20 minutes later, you're like, let's get another eight bottle, it'll last all night.
Charlie Miller (42:09.236)
Dude, it's, you know, it's just, you know, once you, yeah, cause you know, then you're up, you need something to come down. Yeah, it was just, it was like I said, you know, the nineties were a bit different for me. You know, I actually missed the last year of the Grateful Dead. I saw, like I said, I saw 44 shows in 1993. 1994, I saw four shows. And in 1995, I saw none because I lived like...
Larry (42:21.55)
I understand.
Charlie Miller (42:37.724)
Right outside the front door of the place I was living was the entrance to the BART station. All I had to do was just walk outside, get on the BART, and I'd be at Oakland Coliseum. And that was the difference between me and Jerry. He could at least get to Oakland Coliseum in his condition, whereas in I was just, yeah, it was pretty bad. Yeah. I mean, the fact that I'm still here talking about it is pretty shocking, but yeah.
Larry (42:53.614)
Thanks for watching!
Larry (42:57.372)
Not doing it.
Larry (43:03.638)
Okay. Well, that's wonderful. We're glad to have you here. You know, most because you're, you know, all your memories are quite, uh, quite diverse for the dead heads of the world. It would be a shame to lose it. Have you ever written a book or thought about it?
Charlie Miller (43:04.97)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (43:15.004)
Yeah. You know, there was somebody who was going to help me do that. And, you know, my whole thing is, if I put it in writing, then I would, you can't go back and, not that you can't go back and change, but you can't go back and add things or explain why. There's just so many reasons, you know, and, you know, I would love for someone to work with me on that at some point in my life.
But the thing I want to do the most is I want to pass on the knowledge that I have through either mixing live sound or just with what I do with the recordings or all the stuff that I've learned. I would love to share the information with people.
Larry (44:01.774)
So it'll be a lost art, right? I mean, these days you can record anything, you know, given the modern equipment that they have, but to really understand the art. I mean, let me ask you this, when you guys would be on tour taping, was there like kind of an understanding among the group of tapers or like who had what spots, no matter where you were, and one guy got to be closer to the soundboard, one guy would be up here, or was it just always first come first serve?
Charlie Miller (44:07.36)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (44:23.456)
It was first come first served. Like, you know, what we used to do at Oakland or any venue where it was, you know, it was 99%. Actually it was always a GA taper section, unless you had the floor on the arenas on the East Coast, sometimes they would be reserved. But then that's another story, man. If the taper sets up in your seat and you're not there, then you know, they're not gonna move for you in New York. They're gonna send you away. But what I would do is my taper partner,
Larry (44:50.112)
Right.
Charlie Miller (44:53.204)
He had a backpack with all the gear, the microphones, the cables, the recorder, and I had the stand. And I would be in the front of the line, and when the door would open, I would have nothing to search. I'd have a stand, and they would take my ticket, and I would just run. So by the time the tapers are starting to work their way in there, I'm sitting front row, center, you know, at the stand already set up. And that's just the way it always is.
Larry (45:16.686)
Okay.
Rob (45:18.243)
And he just, your partner's casually waltzes in, takes his time, starts screwing things together. That's great.
Charlie Miller (45:20.928)
Casually was it? We, yeah, I lived two blocks from the Warfield. And so we went in December, 89 and we did the Garcia Warfield shows and we've just, you know, we snuck this stuff in but we were pretty open about it when we got it. We didn't have a stand or anything, but we were, I was tenderloin, right? Right, yeah, I did South of Market at one point but I was tender.
Rob (45:36.846)
Were you south of market?
You are, yeah.
Larry (45:44.118)
South of market in the land of ruin.
Rob (45:44.822)
Like, yeah, right?
Charlie Miller (45:45.944)
Yeah, I was on six at one point I had apartments on six, but that was another on six. Yeah, that's another story. But, but now so we would we would pretty open about our taping there for that run. But when we came back for in February 1990, like Jerry played there every month, you know, and February, March, April, and he skipped the month came back in June, skipped the month came back in August, you know, it was like, and like in 91, it was January, February, March, April, May.
Rob (45:51.06)
Right by the Thunderbird Motel.
Larry (45:55.154)
I'm going to go.
Charlie Miller (46:14.792)
you know, anywhere from three to five nights. And I, we were, I was stealthing all of them, but we showed up one night in the beginning of the 1990 run and they had the mobile recording truck on the side of the venue and we were just like, Oh, they're multi-tracking, which means there's going to be a live album, which means there's going to be people actively hunting us down who's taping. And, um, we got, I got busted.
Rob (46:14.83)
Yeah.
Amen.
Charlie Miller (46:40.692)
in the middle of the first set the first night and we taped the other two nights. Then we came back for the next run and we couldn't get our D5 in anymore. So we ran back to the apartment, dropped it off and right next to the Warfields electronics store we walked in and we bought a D6. You can get a D6 in anywhere, you know. It was just classic how we used to get this stuff in. They used to say to me, we know you've got this stuff, we know somewhere that you're taping and we can't catch you. And it just, you know, is one of those things.
Larry (47:09.599)
Garcia did allow taping the way the dead did?
Charlie Miller (47:11.444)
He didn't care. It was more of, I was always told it was a Steve Parrish decision. It used to be, if you got to stuff in, you were okay. Like in the early mid-80s. But then it was kind of, it was just a different thing. It was just weird. But yeah, I've got stories on that. Taping Garcia at the Warfield, man. I've got like a million stories on that one.
Rob (47:11.563)
No.
Charlie Miller (47:41.254)
That was quite the adventure.
Larry (47:42.09)
Wow, I bet.
Rob (47:43.97)
That was my second home for about four years. I saw every Warfield show from 92 to 95. And so I got to ask you, if you lived right there and you saw a lot of Warfields, were you a Charleston devotee after the show? Would you go over to the Charleston?
Charlie Miller (47:56.672)
No, I would go back to the apartment and probably smoke crack or something stupid like that. I was fucked up. Or do blow. Or you know, or get drunk. Or yeah, it just, yeah, I was, you know, yeah. It is what it is. You know, it is what it is.
Larry (48:10.958)
Okay, yeah.
Rob (48:13.585)
Yep. Well, the tenderloin does that to you. I can tell you that you're not the first person that lived in the loins that was hitting it hard in those years.
Charlie Miller (48:20.596)
Well, that last drink that I ever had on December 31st, 1996, I was at a hotel on 6th Street across from the Warfield there. And it was New Year's Day and I had no money and it was raining and I got kicked out of the hotel. I had a $20 room. It was a mattress on a floor and a broken window and a blanket. It was the bottom of the barrel. They didn't get any worse than this. And
and getting kicked out of there for, you know, yeah. That was my rock bottom, you know. Made some decisions and acted real quickly on them.
Larry (48:57.014)
Okay, well good for you man.
Rob (49:04.774)
Yep, which sometimes is all you have to do is realize like that that's it. I'm done. And if I don't pull it together now, I'm dead next week, which, yeah. Well, as Larry said, man, stoked that you're still with us because everything you've done since then is nothing short of spectacular, man. So just like kudos to you.
Charlie Miller (49:07.679)
Yep.
Charlie Miller (49:13.1)
Yep, yep, yep. That was pretty bad, but.
Larry (49:20.366)
Sure.
Charlie Miller (49:23.08)
I'm really trying to give back to the community. I really appreciate that. I really want to give back to the community because I felt like I was draining the energy and the life out of everything around me. And I was not a positive person, you know, just due to my addiction. And I just kind of really wanted to make up for all that negative shit that happened.
And we all love music. And honestly, I kind of started doing it for me. I started getting these tapes and be like, OK, great. I can have these great copies. And then I started saying, hey, is it OK if I release some of these? And sometimes it's, I don't care what you do. And sometimes it's no answer. Because if they give me permission, and if you give permission in an email and you've set policy.
Because they're using, it says in this email that it's okay to do this thing, which means everyone can now do it. And so a lot of times they would just not respond to me. You know, I've, I've had a few conversations with some of the people from GDP or even David Lemire or anybody who's just like, was me sending them an email and I didn't get a response and that's perfect. That's all I, you know, so I asked.
Rob (50:36.394)
I asked, yeah. So how'd you get the gig with Kimok? I mean, because Kimok, obviously, I shouldn't say obviously, but reputationally, Kimok is kind of a prickly person to work with, and a lot of people are like...
Charlie Miller (50:47.836)
It's you know what? It's he's the nicest freaking guy. He's the only artist that I've ever worked with in my decades long career that will stand up for his crew. If I'm at a venue and the venue wants to charge me 50 bucks for a board feed, he won't start until they give me the board feed. He'll say, show me in the contract where it says and he'll say, you know, it's you will actually I've had other bands would be like, deal with it. We don't care.
If you can't do it, then don't record for us. You know, it's like one of those things. And he, he told me that like when he was in the, in the other ones, he used to ride on the bus with the crew, not the band. He loves his crew so much. He's the nicest freaking guy. And it says he used to sit facing the band instead of, you know, with his back to the crowd, just for whatever reason. And people just took it in a, in an absolute wrong way. And let me just dispel the.
The heroin thing, that just never happened. That's just not even a thing. People thought he was, cause he's a quiet, shy, stoner, whatever.
Rob (51:53.814)
Right, yeah, yeah. So that's my personal experience with him. I've had the chance to interact with him quite a bit when I've been running point on festivals that he's been playing at and I've been sort of his like artist relations, like liaison. In my experiences, he's always really nice, but I also get the sense that like, he's kind of, like he wants to get from point A to point B without a lot of chit chat in between unless like you're a person he really wants to talk to.
Charlie Miller (52:15.568)
That's so it. It's like, you know, it's, can you take care of this or do I need to do this? And it's not in a bad way. It's like when we go out to eat and the check comes, it's like, you guys got this or should I cover it? It's not, do we have to, let's not sit around for 10 minutes and discuss it. Let's just do it, you know? And it's a positive thing. And, you know, he, okay, me and Ariel started following Steve Kimach.
together and in 2002 we went to every show, every show for a whole year. The only shows that I missed were Japan for four nights. This was Steve Kimach Band and it was Alfonso Johnson was on bass and Rodney Holmes was on drums and it was just the most amazing shit ever. And I mean, I lived in San Francisco, they were playing a 75 minute festival set outside of Atlanta and I flew to Atlanta for this set just to be there. And you know, one
Rob (52:50.978)
zero.
Charlie Miller (53:13.46)
Steve called me up, actually he called me and Ariel and we were freaking out. Kim Mark's calling us up. He's like, we want to, we love this recording he made. We want to make this our live album, you know, an actual album out of it. And is it okay? And I was like, oh my gosh. So show up every night. Eventually the you're going to start getting paid. That's one of those things. So every night we were there and I became his recording engineer, his sound guy, his road manager, his driver.
Larry (53:23.724)
Huh.
Charlie Miller (53:43.168)
I mean, stage crew, anything, whatever's needed, whatever capacity. And plus I've been his archivist for 22 years now, but whatever capacity they need me is how I'm there, but I'm always recording. I never show up without the mics and the recorder. So it's recording and whatever else needs to be done. Help count in the merch, because I love counting stuff. I'm a numbers guy. You know?
Rob (54:10.906)
So I think Larry and I said this a lot with some of our guests on the show. Like we get done with taping a show and we're like, that was the coolest guy in the world. You know, like you've got you've done so many fun things in this industry with really, really fun people. What a unique perspective and amazing way to be able to recount everything that's gone on, you know, in the last 30 years. But as I said, like nothing speaks greater than kind of the volume of work you've put out for the rest of us to enjoy. So it's just, you know.
again, a lot of reverence here on this side of the video feed. I hope you keep doing it, man, because the community needs you.
Charlie Miller (54:45.344)
It's fun, dude. I'm just having fun. You know, we were on Rhythm Devil's tour. We were staying at this bed and breakfast in Vermont between rehearsal days. And we, after one rehearsal, and everyone back to their rooms, me and Kimock were in the lobby and there was this tall mannequin with like the shirt and the sweater and the golf club. Cause I mean, we're in a bed and breakfast in Vermont. So it was that whole look.
So I looked at Steve, he looked at me, we didn't even need to say anything. We put this thing on the luggage cart and we wheeled it to Mickey Hart's room. And we put it right in front of his door, knocked on the door and just took off. And it's just, um, it's just have fun, man. It's just whatever you're going to do, just have fun doing it, you know? And, uh, that's one thing I like about Steve is he doesn't, he's never.
Larry (55:17.174)
Oh god.
Charlie Miller (55:35.604)
He's never tried to change me. He's tried to teach me and train me. And if there's somebody there who has worked with him in the past, who he thinks can teach me something, he'll bring me over them. It'll introduce me to them and just let it, let the conversation happen. Cause I'm, I'm like, I'm so eager to learn anything about, you know, with this working with sound, you know, audio and doing live sound. I love recording and I'm a, I'm a, I'm a recording engineer.
first and foremost, but my happy place is doing sound for Kim Ok. That is just like one of the most fun things ever. You know, and he had a great band before the pandemic and that kind of threw, that just screwed up so many things for the music industry and that was so sad. All these bands like, you know, what are you going to do? Because you can't tour. But, and we lost, we lost a couple of band members to Dead and Company.
Larry (56:12.758)
great place to be. That's really great.
Charlie Miller (56:34.768)
You know Maybe he'll get them. Maybe maybe he'll get Oteel and Jeff back. But no Steve's now playing in Oteel's band Which I think is fantastic. I love Oteel. He's one of the nicest guy. He's my out of any bass player I've ever mixed he was my favorite It's like you seriously you don't need to do anything except turn up the volume I know it's just that tone he has is so beautiful
Larry (56:37.622)
That happens too.
Larry (57:00.962)
He's great. I left him with the Allman brothers, love him with Denko, love him everywhere he shows up.
Charlie Miller (57:03.708)
I never saw him with you all my brothers. I've heard the recordings, but I never got to see him. But, you know, and when the...
Rob (57:11.419)
I loved it with Laker Road at the Warfield. You know, that was such a fun lineup, the sort of the Garcia birthday band.
Charlie Miller (57:17.981)
Yeah, that looks like fun. If I had lived in San Francisco, I would have been there. I recorded over 300 shows in San Francisco in 2001 when I lived there, you know. And I was sober. I was sober a few years and I was just every night going to see somebody and taping, you know. And there's no shortage of music there, that's for sure.
Larry (57:30.311)
Whoa.
Larry (57:41.198)
That's awesome.
Rob (57:41.858)
Good news for me, Larry, is that Charlie lives right down the street from me in San Diego, so I get back out to the West Coast and quite certain we'll bump into each other at the Belly Up or some other venues around the area. But it sounds like you might get a chance to meet him in person for Fish in Chicago. So part of the great thing about us doing this show, besides the fact we just get to nerd out about the Grateful Dead for an hour every Wednesday.
Charlie Miller (57:50.112)
For sure, bro.
Larry (57:57.45)
I love it. Let me know when you hit town.
Rob (58:06.246)
is the people we have gotten to meet and how many people we've actually kept in touch with afterwards, whether it's Rob Bleedstein or David Gans or some of the other ones we've mentioned. But it's been a really, really unique way to sort of, meet new friends on this very limited venue of a small audience podcast we have. But thank you.
Charlie Miller (58:22.896)
Yeah, David Gans is a great guy. You know, David Gans is responsible for helping me. I mean, he introduced me to a lot of people and it's like, I don't know how to phrase it properly, but it's like, you know, he's responsible for introducing me to a lot of people who got me a little lot of tapes over the years. And, you know, David Gans' contribution to our scene is just, you know, immeasurable. It's just so, so unbelievably big.
Larry (58:25.858)
Yeah, it's just like very nice.
Charlie Miller (58:52.837)
and we're lucky to have him.
Rob (58:55.658)
And he had such an understated way and he's the most humble and gracious person in every possible way. The guy's just chill, laid back and really kind to everyone that he comes in contact with. Yeah, we're very big fans. So hey, Charlie, you've been super, super gracious with your time today, man. And obviously, we'd love to have you back anytime you want to spend another hour with us. You've got carte blanche and open invite to come back and share more stories. So yeah.
Charlie Miller (59:03.732)
Such a nice guy.
Charlie Miller (59:19.073)
That would be great. I would love to come back some time. We can talk setlist patterns and discuss. We can do a retrospect, look back at the Dead and Company Torn's, look back after it's all done. And you know.
Larry (59:24.971)
Oh yes.
Larry (59:34.67)
Sure.
Rob (59:35.426)
So Larry, before you sign off, you didn't give your prediction for what you think the final 10 is going to be.
Larry (59:40.606)
Yeah, they're just such a, the stuff they pull out of nowhere. Right? And look, the interesting thing about Denonco is that setlist order means very little to them and songs just pop up everywhere throughout the set, which is kind of cool because it keeps it a little more unpredictable. But in that regard, it's more stab in the dark. I mean, it seems that the way that they've been ending their really big shows has been with Ripple.
You know, if, uh, that seems to be a good way to go, but I, you know, they could certainly do addicts again. I love addicts. Um, I don't think that they would do box of rain, but Bobby has a sense of humor. Who knows?
Rob (01:00:23.542)
Yeah.
Charlie Miller (01:00:24.764)
Love Bobby.
Larry (01:00:26.066)
Sure. Absolutely. He's, he's carried the mantle very nicely.
Charlie Miller (01:00:30.977)
Yeah. Yeah, I loved during the early 80s, freaking rock star Bobby, man, I just I just love that shit. Just, you know. Yeah.
Larry (01:00:31.426)
Definitely.
Larry (01:00:39.754)
I can't, I can't sing not fade away, get to the Cadillac without jumping forward and throwing my arms out.
Charlie Miller (01:00:45.836)
We were at the scope in 82 and I was leaning on the rail right in front of Bobby Dost and he just you know they just they stopped and screamed on to tell you how it's gonna be and he just pointed right down and me and People right next to me he looked right at us and we just lost our freaking mind and That's when he was pointing over there and pointing over there and just pointing right down. Yeah, that was that was Yeah Right on
Larry (01:01:07.202)
Sure, absolutely.
It's always good fun, no doubt about it. Okay guys, well Rob, great to have you back on the show this week. We look forward to having you back as much as we can. Charlie, thank you again. This was a real treat for us. Rob and I are self-styled nerd heads when it comes to the Grateful Dead, and we love meeting others of our ilk, especially those that are actually accomplished, to the degree that you are with the Grateful Dead and the family and all of that stuff.
Rob (01:01:14.242)
Well, thank you.
Larry (01:01:40.638)
It just makes me very happy to know that there's guys like you out there who, uh, you know, who get to be part of all of this and bring it to the rest of us who never quite got our foot in the door, but love going every time we can.
Charlie Miller (01:01:50.176)
right on. I look forward to coming back sometime and doing it again.
Rob (01:01:52.364)
and I'll sign off, but.
Larry (01:01:52.622)
It's all very cool.
Rob (01:01:56.13)
and I'll sign up by saying, you know, thank you again. And it'd be remiss not to do the cliche thing based on the show that I chose to play, but I'm gonna play us off of a song that Charlie, I'm sure, is shaking his head, go, oh, don't do it. But I just have to. But at the end of the show, you know, it's, yeah. So it's time to edit, so go on home. Your mama's calling you, my man. All right, thanks, guys.
Larry (01:01:56.366)
Please.
Charlie Miller (01:02:11.788)
Oh no! I just realized it! Right on, brother!
Larry (01:02:20.758)
Very good. Everyone have a great show. Have a good week. Be safe. Enjoy your cannabis responsibly.
Charlie Miller (01:02:25.313)
Bye.