"Marijuana and Gun Rights: The Legal Debate Unveiled" Larry Mishkin welcomes listeners from Minneapolis, Minnesota, where he attended the Michigan University football game and reunited with friends. The episode focuses on a Grateful Dead show from October 9th, 1989, discussing the significance of the band's name change from "Warlocks" to "Grateful Dead." Larry also touches on the ongoing legal debate surrounding medical marijuana patients' rights to own firearms, emphasizing the need to separate the issues of marijuana legalization and gun ownership. .Produced by PodConx
"Marijuana and Gun Rights: The Legal Debate Unveiled"
Larry Mishkin welcomes listeners from Minneapolis, Minnesota, where he attended the Michigan University football game and reunited with friends. The episode focuses on a Grateful Dead show from October 9th, 1989, discussing the significance of the band's name change from "Warlocks" to "Grateful Dead." Larry also touches on the ongoing legal debate surrounding medical marijuana patients' rights to own firearms, emphasizing the need to separate the issues of marijuana legalization and gun ownership.
Deadhead Cannabis Show - https://podconx.com/podcasts/deadhead-cannabis-show
Larry Mishkin - https://podconx.com/guests/larry-mishkin
Rob Hunt - https://podconx.com/guests/rob-hunt
Jay Blakesberg - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg
Sound Designed by Jamie Humiston - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-humiston-91718b1b3/
Hampton Coliseum
October 9, 1989
An Evening With The Warlocks
Grateful Dead Live at Hampton Coliseum on 1989-10-09 : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive
Rob – I know this is one of your favorite Dead shows, if you have time this week!
Intro: Feel Like A Stranger
Track No. 1
3:12 – 4:40
Show No. 1: We Can Run
Track No. 5
4:10 – 5:42
I love that even on a historic night like this there is room for Brent.
Show No. 2: Dark Star
Track No. 13
1:06 – 2:36
Can’t leave this out, it’s why everybody busted ass to get there!
Show No. 3: Death Don’t Have No Mercy
Track No. 15
7:11 – 8:45
Can’t have one without the other
Show No. 4: Throwing Stones
Track No.
7:10 – 8:42
Outro: Attics of my Life
Track No. 20
2:10 – 3:47
The third “oldie” and a great way to close out.
Larry (00:31.618)
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Deadhead Cannabis Show. I'm Larry Michigan of Michigan Law in Chicago coming to you today from lovely Minneapolis, Minnesota where I find myself coming to enjoy the weekend that just passed. I see a bunch of my buddies. My good buddy Mikey, my big deadhead buddy took me to my first show. Gonna be seeing him. Our good friend Andy Greenberg who's always been a big fan of the show and a big supporter of us is here with her husband.
the mysterious Alex who one day we still will get on our show and tap into his wealth of knowledge about the Grateful Dead and all things music related. My wife and I drove up with our good friend Harold, had a great time and tomorrow night those of us that are inclined are going to go outside and brave the brisk fall weather to see the Michigan Wolverines take on the Minnesota Golden Gophers and even though we don't know the score yet, by the time you're listening to this you do know the score or you could know the score if you were interested in.
I'm sure most of you aren't, but that's okay, because I am, so I'll be talking about it next week. But let's dive right in. We got a great, great show today. We got The Grateful Dead from October 9th, 1989. And this is a special show. We've talked about this show before, and we've played bits and pieces of this show on the day before, the eighth and the ninth, because it's the two nights when The Grateful Dead played at the Hampton Coliseum in Hampton, Virginia.
under the title of formerly known as the Warlocks. And of course the Warlocks was the name of the band the Grateful Dead played under before they switched over to the Grateful Dead in around 1965, early 1966. I don't remember exactly when, I should, but I don't. And so throwing the name Warlocks in there, this was a two-off show. They had just played a tour that had just, I think, ended.
and they made a very quick announcement. It was less than 30 days from announcement to show. Everybody had a scramble. When they saw the Warlocks, people knew they couldn't miss it and they didn't. And it was a great, great show. And on October 9th, 1989, 34 years ago today, here's how it all began.
Larry (04:06.318)
Feel Like a Stranger, 1979, Go to Heaven, from that point on became a regular part of the Grateful Dead repertoire, more or less kind of settling in to a second set closer. It would come up from time to time in various locations, but certainly there and would also be played a lot as a show opener actually, probably more as an opener than anything else. So I'll strike that last statement and go with this statement, which sounds a lot better.
It could open sometimes with Franklin's Tower, with a number of other songs, but sometimes just straight on its own. And a really good song when it was released, they also released it as a single. And it did okay there too, but it was on the Go To Heaven album from 1979. And I feel like a stranger, so a fun way to open a show, a little bit of energy. Bobby gets going so you know he's ready and having a good time. But people came to this show expecting to see
big things given the way that the Deadhead advertised it. So although Great Feels Like a Stranger is a great tune and typically very much enjoyed by Deadheads when we're seeing a show, it was also not unusual to see a show open with Feel Like a Stranger. So at this point people are just settling in and they're thinking okay well here we go. You know not too bad so far for a first set. Let's see where this takes us and you know we can kind of go from there.
So that's fine. Let's see where it takes us. And a few minutes later in the first set, the fans got to hear this.
Larry (06:13.23)
Thank you.
Larry (06:30.827)
Thanks for watching!
Larry (06:51.202)
We can't hide from it Of all possible love We don't make out, we don't make out a lie Of it Whatever we try We'll never get tired Of what we've been trying Maybe we can
Larry (07:15.682)
You have to get a little bit of Brent Midland in here. So here's what's fun about all of this. People are sitting there, we're anticipating a big show, big night, famous location for The Grateful Dead on the East Coast. They're all but promising that special treats are gonna be pulled out of the closet. And so we find ourselves kind of going through a first set here. We heard Feels Like a Stranger, they played Built to Last, Little Red Rooster, Rumble on Rose, We Can Run.
Jack O'Roe, Stuck Inside of Mobile, Roe Jimmy, and then a set closer, the music never stopped. Now right there, that's not a bad first set for the Grateful Dead, that's nine tunes. And by any measure, by 1989, that's a very, very solid first set. And they were really going strong. Now again, being in Hampton Coliseum, Fish fans love it, Deadheads love it. A lot of bands have gone to Coliseum, Hampton Coliseum, and really made a mark on it there.
And it's just one of those great kind of places. It's in a town that's just big enough to be able to accommodate the crowds that come in, but not too big. You got your Waffle Houses and your 7-Elevens all over the place. You're not too far off the beach. And it was always a lot of fun. We always enjoyed going there. By 1989, I was not really getting out there anymore, growing up and going to work and getting married and thinking about kids and everything. But I did not make it out there for these shows, unfortunately. Because...
I would have gone just knowing that they were playing in Hampton Coliseum, but certainly as the Warlocks we'd want to be there. But you know, even with all of this, you know, they're kind of keeping the fans, you know, just at arm's length and they're playing it straight, right? So you know, we've got Bobby coming in, we've got with newer tunes, we've got Brent coming in, We Can Run is off of Built to Last from 1989 and you know, just his ever growing contributions to the band and to their song selections.
really going in such a wonderful direction with the band and tragic because as we know within a year or so, by July of 1990, the Grateful Dead have lost Brent and Brent unfortunately has lost his life with an overdose. But at this point, man, he's going strong and he plays that tune really strong. And obviously they're all in good spirits. So, you know, whatever they have planned, whatever's going down, whatever's going to happen, you know, we'll find out about it as we get there.
Larry (09:41.618)
and see what they do. You know, it just makes it fun to go see them in this respect, right? Because you never really know. Everybody's always kind of going in hoping for one of those special shows. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. But on a night like this, you can kind of feel the energy in the air and everybody's just anticipating, anticipating. And we'll let everybody on this side anticipate for a few minutes as well and talk about some other things really fast. First of all,
this coming weekend, Fish will be in Chicago. And I could not be happier about that. With the inability to see the dead or even Dead and Co. Phil not touring nearly as much anymore. It's nice to know there's always Fish. And Fish has become a band that I really enjoy seeing. They will really rock it out for a good period of time, good crowd, good people. Got some good seats to see them in the United Center in Chicago. Not necessarily the best venue to see rock and roll, but not the worst.
and it's indoors, it's clean, and I got good seats through the fish mail order or email order, however they do it now. So I'm a happy guy, I'll be going all three nights. My brother's gonna join me one night, my wife will go with me one night. If she has a good time, she may go a second night. But really looking forward to getting out there and seeing them and getting some live music. And so I'd like to be able to tell you that on next week's show, we'll be talking about it, but unfortunately.
I will be taping again next week's show just before I go to see the Fish Show, so you're going to have to wait a week after that. But I promise once I have seen them, we will dive into it big and strong and talk about them and talk about everything that they did at the shows here. They've got a lot going on. They've got their New Year's shows announced. They've got their big Fish Festival coming up towards the end of next summer in August. So a lot going on with Fish for people who are inclined to focus their energy and attention on that band.
I highly approve of and think is a great thing to do. There's always lots of fish and thank God. So we'll go out, we'll have a fun time and be dancing around and seeing them at the United Center, the house that Michael Jordan built. We like to refer to it here in Chicago.
Larry (11:52.308)
So.
There's a lot going on in the marijuana world and we're going to dive in right now. So, Dan, anytime you're ready.
Larry (12:15.274)
You're the best man, love that stuff. It's good, gets Dan involved in the whole marijuana side of stuff and we really enjoy it and have a good time with him, so nicely done. There's really kind of a lot going on, as there always seems to be in the marijuana world. And I was flipping around and looking at some stories today on both MJ Biz and Marijuana Moment, which are the show's two go-to sources for our marijuana news.
uh... to new sources that i would strongly recommend and i'd recommend you go to both of them uh... because while they will both have some of the same stories uh... they will also each cover stories uh... that the other one isn't covering or hasn't picked up on yet and uh... if you want to know what's going on in the marijuana world uh... that's a great way to do it or listen to this show each week and i'll be happy to update you as well uh... one of the issues that we've talked about going on with marijuana and uh... something that certainly has to be
ultimately addressed and considered is the idea that in order to have a FOIDA card, a firearms owner identification card, which allows you to carry a gun in this country, you cannot be engaged in the violation of any laws, including schedule one and schedule two controlled substances. And since marijuana remains a schedule one controlled substance, notwithstanding the DEA and Health and Human Services and everybody apparently for the last 20 years really knowing and understanding that
Marijuana doesn't belong on any schedules and shouldn't be treated any differently than alcohol or any other substances like that are potentially intoxicating but are otherwise safe and harmless. And even more so, as we've talked about week after week, more and more medical treatments are coming out, more and more studies are coming out verifying earlier reports on medical treatments and it's just such a positive thing to see all of that.
But yet we still have some issues floating around. One of them is this idea of the gun ban. And it's very disconcerting and it's very upsetting because the fact that people want to be able to go out and smoke marijuana should not automatically disqualify them from owning a handgun. Now, I'm going to confess to anybody, I'm pretty much an anti any kind of gun guy because I don't see the value and I do see the huge ridiculous numbers of deaths. Gun violence just became the number one cause of teenage death in this country.
Larry (14:35.49)
That's something we don't need if it were marijuana everybody would be screaming to get marijuana off of the Off of the laws and make it illegal again and lock people up forever But it's guns and they don't so I see a gun problem in this country but I've always taken the position the guns and marijuana are two separate issues and When you when you legalize something like we legalize alcohol, we don't say anybody who drinks alcohol can't have a gun. Although
I would be willing to bet that people who go out and get drunk are far more likely to engage in gunfire than people who have smoked marijuana and have gotten stoned, just like with driving and all the studies that showed that drivers who are inebriated after drinking alcohol are far more dangerous than drivers who have gotten high from smoking or edibles or whatever form of marijuana they take. And yet, once again, marijuana gets, oh, no, this is the bad one and this is the one we're going to punish. So...
We've seen a number of different groups in a number of different states trying to separate these two issues and allow people to be medical marijuana patients or to have medical marijuana operating licenses for either dispensaries or cultivation and not find that they're automatically disqualified simply because they own a firearm, which at least in this point in time is certainly their constitutional right. And even though I'm against it, I will always recognize the constitutional right when it's been enunciated.
Again, we can agree to disagree on whether it was properly enunciated, but until somebody goes in and challenges it again with a better argument, and I do believe there are better arguments out there, it is legal. So if it's okay to have a gun, and if it's okay to smoke marijuana, I don't know why it's not okay to do both, but the Justice Department found it necessary to go in and defend its gun ban for medical marijuana patients, an oral argument.
before a federal appeals court, which heard arguments last week in a case concerning the constitutionality of the federal ban keeping medical marijuana patients from purchasing or possessing firearms. A three-judge panel of the US Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit listened and asked questions as attorneys for Florida medical cannabis patients in the Justice Department argued their side of the case, which have been fleshed out in multiple briefings for over a year now.
Larry (16:54.986)
So Will Hollis, representing the plaintiff, said in his opening remarks that there are two main considerations at hand that demonstrate the unconstitutionality of the federal ban. Multiple courts outside of the 11th Circuit have already determined that prohibition is unconstitutional. So regardless of the legality of cannabis use, precedent holds that simply committing a crime on its own does not inherently exclude someone from their Second Amendment rights. The second is that the Supreme Court has created a new threshold for gun restrictions.
that renders them unconstitutional if there is not a historical analog consistent with the amendment's original 1791 ratification. Banning people who use medical cannabis is inconsistent with that historical context, the attorney contended. Now, the Justice Department attorney came back and recognized that there were not widespread illegal drugs at the founding. That's not something that happens until the turn of the 20th century. But he argued that early laws restricting gun rights over drunkenness and mental illness
represent historical analogs that are consistent with the purpose and intent of the federal gun ban for people who consume cannabis regularly. In a prior briefing, they said it was undisputed that the conduct that plaintiffs wish to engage in is a violation of federal law, and obviously has been for 50 years. I think it's also significant that we're talking about a violation not just of the law, but a violation that involves the use of intoxicating substances. It's undisputed here that those substances involve the impairment of cognition, judgment, and other skills.
that are essential to the safe handling of firearms. I would concede that if somebody's can be handling a firearm, they're better off not toxicated. But if it's a question of we live in a society where we know people are going to be toxicated, I think you have a much stronger argument drawing that connection that they're trying to make here with alcohol far more than with marijuana for the reasons that we always all go around talking about. And
It's just a very complex issue, but for me, I don't see where it helps the marijuana community or the marijuana side of the argument at all to try to link the two issues. And even from a government perspective, I don't think it really makes sense to try to link the two issues because we all know that marijuana is legal now in the states that have approved it, which are growing and growing in number. We all know that marijuana is a remarkably safe product to consume. We all know that marijuana has been shown to have tremendous medical value.
Larry (19:12.386)
We all know that in states with legal marijuana, teenage smoking goes down. We know that numbers for American citizens who approve of legal marijuana and who have used marijuana at least once in their lifetime are at all-time highs. And so, you know, we're just at a point in time where we kind of have to allow marijuana to proceed on its own. And that's really what should be going on here. Marijuana is its own substance. It's its own issue. And clearly...
it has made its way into society and to try to go back and once again link it with guns or try to emphasize that linkage for purposes of shrinking or reducing the medical marijuana market and the legal cannabis community to me, that seems un-American. That seems something that just shouldn't be done. And I'd like to see the NRA and other gun groups taking a very strong stand on this issue like they tend to do on any issue involving gun rights other than once a black person involved.
You know, in some of those moments just don't work out very well for them. And this would seem to me to be a great moment for the NRA to come out and say, yeah, this is ridiculous. We don't approve of this law. Marijuana consumers are citizens too, and they have just as much right to carry a gun as anybody else. Unfortunately, I don't see them doing that. And so, you know, that's a whole other issue problematically on the gun side.
But at the end of the day, I think that we all have to kind of move on beyond this issue and not really let us drag it down into an argument that nobody's ever going to be satisfied with and really raises up a lot of emotional feelings in people. And when guns get interjected into the argument, we very, very quickly draw political lines and societal lines in terms of what we as individuals all believe is the proper place.
for any kind of a gun in society today. And, you know, for as many of us that oppose it, there are just as many that approve it and wouldn't have it any other way.
Larry (21:18.958)
And that's great. And neither the purpose of this show or my life at the moment is to be arguing that issue. So I say, let's not make it an issue of marijuana. Let's keep it separate. And the federal government, once again, has to stop the hypocrisy that is all of these ridiculous rules that they come up with. Because as we've talked about recently, the government itself has conducted studies of marijuana. The government itself is aware of the medical benefits of marijuana.
many government agencies, the DEA, the Health and Human Services, who have been doing all this research into marijuana and who suggested it's time to reschedule it, even though we say it's time to reschedule it. And yeah, and here's another perfect example, right? Because we say when it's rescheduling, it's still illegal. And if it's still illegal, then you can still have groups like the Justice Department making this kind of an argument. If we make marijuana legal and we reschedule it altogether, this is no longer an issue. There's no argument to be made here.
because we no longer have to worry about somebody being involved in illegal conduct while possessing marijuana. So therefore, the qualifying condition for all of that other stuff never comes into play because we're not engaged in illegal activity. And I don't wanna see certain groups coming forward and saying, well, look, we don't want.
uh... marijuana legalized on the federal level and we don't really want it legalized at all. In fact, what we want to be able to do is to keep punishing people like this because they've chosen to exercise what should be, you know, as much of a constitutional right uh... to ingest and appreciate a substance as any other substances out there that we use. And uh... you know, we like to think that we're heading towards that goal. Many of us think we're not getting there nearly fast enough and this is an issue.
that whether you believe in guns or don't believe in guns makes it very easy to illustrate the great divide that still exists out there between a federal government that's going to get off its hypocrisy high horse and say, yes, people like to smoke weed. We get that. We recognize that it does have societal value. It does have medicinal value. We're going to take it off the schedules. We're going to make it available for everyone 21 years of age or older per
Larry (23:34.994)
state rules in which it's grown or sold and they can decide how to do it. There's no constitutional right to marijuana, but you don't have to make it illegal because of the feds because we say it's legal, just like the hemp bill in 2018. This is something that just needs to get done already. Then if that happens, we don't have to worry about the Safe Banking Act once again blowing up in the Senate and the House because when it's legal, the banks will no longer have to worry about any of these issues in terms of doing business with the industry. So...
It's really time, I think, to move forward and to move past all of this and to really try and find a way that allows people with multiple legal rights to enjoy, constitutional rights to enjoy all those rights, one might say in an entourage effect, all of them at the same time working together. And if the government wants to go through and try and pick off one or two of them at a time, that's certainly their business.
But don't try and backdoor us on cannabis by saying that if you have a gun license and you have possessions of firearms and things like that, that disqualifies you from being a medical patient or disqualifies you from owning a dispensary or cultivation center because that's trying to have it two ways and that just doesn't cut it. It seems to me and it seems to everyone I would like to think that the far easier way is just to say, yes, it's legal.
We're going to judge you on your ability to have a gun on the same standards we judge everybody else and their abilities in terms of what we think you can and cannot do. And quite frankly, if you live in this country today and you can't qualify for a gun license, then you're either dead or there's something really, really wrong with you because it seems like anybody anywhere can get their gun licenses. So let's move past this issue, I think, and let's find a way, you know, once again, to take everybody's positions into account and
Ultimately, that's just going to be a lot better for everyone.
Larry (25:33.794)
But part and parcel with that is another really interesting story. And this one is a good story and this one I like to see because it's very positive in terms of recognizing the medical efficacy of marijuana, which again is one of the key factors in getting it off of schedule one. The American Nurses Association has officially recognized cannabis as a formal specialty practice area. Now this is significant.
It's a professional organization that represents more than 5 million nurses in the US and it's announced its formal recognition of cannabis as a nursing specialty practice area. So this is people absolutely recognizing a traditional, well thought of, mainstream medical group in this country. Nurses who many would say are really the ones on the front line of medical care and the
uh... you know who ultimately do all the dirty work in uh... you know make things happen after the doctor can it comes in and sees the patient was his or her magic wand over their heads uh... you know it's the nurses who were doing the uh... the down and dirty work kind of you know behind the scenes if you will out of the spotlight and yet here they are coming forward and saying that they believe uh... that cannabis plays an important role in providing patients with education and guidance on incorporating marijuana
into treatment. They say this recognition highlights the essential role in special contribution of cannabis nurses to the healthcare system and promotes enhanced integration of cannabis therapies for healthcare consumers across diverse healthcare settings. The group bills itself as the sole reviewing body of specialty nursing scope of practice and standards of practice.
Larry (27:26.918)
And I think that this is true, and I've talked with nurses before, and nurses often point out that with just about any other type of medicine that's out there that you would either get from a doctor or maybe even an over-the-counter situation, it's still nurses who do the overwhelming majority of communication with patients about...
how to take their meds. The doctor prescribes the meds, you go to the pharmacy, you pick it up, you bring it home, you're not sure what to do, you call the doctor's office, the nurse calls you, not the doctor, the nurse calls you. And I'm not being critical of the doctors when I say that, I'm just saying that's what they do. The nurses call you back and the nurses say, oh yeah, Mr. Michigan, you wanna make sure you take two every evening, 20 minutes after you've eaten food or whatever the case may be. Who can explain to you why you're taking what you're taking and what taking a little too much or taking a little too little might do to you and why it's important to maintain.
uh... the prescription amounts on a constant regular basis and many of them argue and i think they've got a very strong point that there should be a specialty practice area for nurses and cannabis so that once you've gone to your dispensary uh... because here we're kind of one step removed right we don't really have a doctor formally writing us a prescription we have a doctor writing us a recommendation to get us into the program and the way i think most doctors view it is i'm signing off on this and i'm just saying to the state that uh...
You have the condition that is needed to qualify to be a medical patient in this state. But I'm not saying that I believe in medical marijuana as a recognized treatment option, or as a reliable treatment option, or as a safe treatment option, or how much of it to smoke and when to smoke and where to smoke.
Larry (29:12.355)
And so what we have is a large number of people who go out there and they buy their marijuana and they don't know what to do with it. And you can ask people in the medical dispensaries, and there are some medical dispensaries that are out there with employees who I believe have the knowledge and the ability to have conversations with potential medical users and answer those kinds of questions. If I have nausea, what's better? If I'm dizzy, what's better? If I'm having trouble sleeping, what's better? If I don't have an appetite, what's better?
And sometimes these bud tenders, if you will, know what they're talking about. But a lot of times they don't. And again, that's not to challenge them and to be critical of them. They're coming out and doing the best job they can. And the real question is, what are they being asked to do? What type of opinions are they being asked to give? And I think that's where we get to the point where we say, somebody who can sit down and can learn a lot about marijuana and can figure out how marijuana
can be used or this or that or whatever, maybe should be somebody who has a bit of familiarity with the various systems in our bodies and how they work with one another and how they interact with one another and all of that kind of stuff. And can really be able to give you hopefully if they're qualified in the specialty area, they've done the practice and they've done the work to get the knowledge that they need to have in order to be able to do that. And so presumably you would think that they're...
they really are a better source for people to be able to go to as opposed to your standard bud tender. And I'm willing to bet that most bud tenders would be thrilled to have somebody in their dispensary or somebody in the neighborhood that they could refer people to with respect to what's the best way to consume this cannabis and you know, in what kind of doses and on what kind of a basis and any of that kind of stuff. So you know, I think that it's great to do it, but to get people
to want to go into these industries, you have to incentivize them and creating a recognized specialty area of practice, I think, is a great way to incentivize a group of people to really be willing to commit and spend more time in that area. And good for the American Nurses Association. Again, a fairly mainstream medical group and certainly not one that has a strong history of pushing cannabis medical or legal.
Larry (31:28.194)
But yet, they're looking at the tea leaves and they're recognizing that given what's going on here, there is a growing need for this type of specialty medical treatment that people can go to that's maybe not as expensive or as formalistic as medical treatment with an MD or another level healthcare provider like that. But it is somebody who's going to know more.
than your regular butt tender. And hopefully somebody who can give you a little bit of confidence and a little bit of information so you can walk into a dispensary to make a purchase and not feel uncomfortable, feel like, I've got a pretty good grip on this, at least a grip good enough that I can go up and I can ask questions now. And if I don't sound quite right, the guy behind the counter may have a little chuckle at my expense, but it won't be a full blown slap in his side and pointing his finger at me. And you know.
and that kind of thing. And I think that that's important for people to have that kind of confidence and to have that kind of understanding of what is their buying and what the purpose of buying it is and how is it gonna work and how would it be used? And so I'm all for the specialty area of practice, for nurses, for doctors, for any type of healthcare professional, up or down the line. I think it's just a very, very important thing.
And that's the way we're ultimately, as a society, going to learn about what the capabilities of these products are, what the true capabilities of them are. As healthcare professionals experiment along lines of use that they've been studying and that they have some background knowledge on, when you can actually have people who are willing to try it for a month or two or three, and you can measure whatever readouts you're looking for from the human body across a period of time.
to get an idea of what the cannabis is doing to that person's system. Those are all available for you to do anyway. So it's a positive thing in my book. Anytime a group is traditional and some might even say conservative as the American Nurses Association to be in essence providing a tacit recognition that cannabis is here to stay and the cannabis does have good potential medical benefits.
Larry (33:50.914)
And so therefore it's important enough for them to be able to recognize this type of specialty and let people run with it. So these are all things we're going to want to keep following over time and see what happens with them and see how they grow. And we will. But the other thing I think is, you know, as I think about it, it's really important to have a nursing area of specialty practices. I think it sends a message to patients as a whole.
Right, a lot of times patients go in to see a doctor. I had to go in the other day, I was getting my COVID shot and they want me to fill out all these forms. I said, do you use alcohol? No. Do you smoke? And I always have to stop and look at it because I know that they're asking about tobacco. I don't smoke tobacco, but I do smoke marijuana. And so, you know, you're never quite sure, you know, exactly what they're looking for. And you know, you're kind of stuck on this fence, which is on the one hand, you know, anytime you're talking to a doctor, you want to be as honest and straightforward with that doctor as you can.
so that the doctor is able to fully understand what your condition is and really come up with the best cure or solution or practice treatment or whatever it might be to help you with your ailment. And if you withhold symptoms or other information upon which a healthcare professional would rely, then you're hampering the ability of the healthcare professional to accurately diagnose what your situation is and to come up with a workable and smart healthcare plan.
So, but other people say, yeah, but I don't want to talk about it. It makes me uncomfortable. Um, you know, what if, what if they put it in their report and then the insurance companies see it and, uh, you know, what if any of like that? And there's just a, uh, you know, a general reluctance, I think for people to just come right out and say how they feel, but you know, when you, again, when you see that a group like the American nurses association has taken the time to set up this, its own.
uh... special terry of practice in legal cannabis uh... you know i hope that will give uh... cannabis users who are seeking medical treatment whether it's medical treatment based on the fact that they would like to stop smoking marijuana so much or whether it's you know inquiring about information on health condition uh... for which marijuana may or may not uh... provide practical solutions or anything across the board when you see that there's a uh... a nursing group uh... a subset of a nursing group
Larry (36:13.366)
Again, from one of the more highly respected and well established medical groups in this country, I think that that's the type of positive pushback that the industry really needs to counteract so much of the negative attention that it still seems to get from many groups, especially when you try to make the argument that there is medical efficacy and everybody kind of laughs and says, yeah, whatever makes you sleep at night, we know you just want to get high kind of thing.
You know, sure, of course we all just want to get high, but that doesn't mean we can't stop and look at this and really recognize the benefits of what we should be able to do and wanting as much as possible to kind of keep the hypocrisies out of the way. And when groups like the American Nurses Association join in on our side, on the good side, then I think that it really does definitely at that point just make things a little bit better for all the rest of us. So thank you to the American Nurses Association.
for doing your thing.
Larry (37:12.146)
Um, let's head back to 10989. When I was talking to my, some of my friends up here earlier today, uh, my friend Harold was particularly interested in, um, very, very impressed with 10989, although he couldn't quite explain why. And eventually we flushed out of him. Of course, he has no idea what 10989 is, but he wanted to sound hip and be part of the show and Harold used to go to dead shows with us all the time. Um, but he kind of bailed on the whole Jerry is God thing. And you know, 50 years later, we're still listening to their shows. So.
God bless, we all had fun when we went to the shows together. It's not necessarily for everybody all the time, but if you walk away from the show today, knowing that 10-9-89 is one of those dates in Grateful Dead history that you always wanna be able to talk about and pull out of your back pockets. Oh yeah, those Warlock shows up in Hampton, those were great. So many great breakouts, what a great couple of nights. And some of you out there who may not still be familiar with the show say, what great breakouts? You've been teasing great breakouts, you keep suggesting there's gonna be great breakouts.
They call themselves the Warlocks and we anticipate great breakouts. But so far we've heard feels like a stranger we can run. But we really haven't heard too much more than that suggests we're having breakouts. Well, okay, fine. Screw it already. We're getting ready now to kind of come forward with the goods that have been promised all day, because after that really, really killer first set, the boys come out in the second set and open with a tremendous playing in the band. And, you know, quite frankly, I think for
For many of us, that right there might have been a very, very good hint at where things were going because playing in the band is the modern day. When I say modern day, I certainly refer to 1989 as modern day Grateful Dead, not modern day in terms of where we are today. But modern day in the world of the Grateful Dead, playing in the band was always a jam jumping off tune. It has its lyrics up front. Bobby really gets into it and sings it, but then they jam and it becomes a free-form jam. And many, many times...
It becomes the launching pad for a very great series of tunes that are about to come at us. And that's what happens here because they immediately, not immediately, but as they begin to slow down on the playing, they slide over into Uncle John's band. Again, another Grateful Dead standard classic from the 1970, 71 period. And if it were only played once every 10 or 15 years or whatever, people would go crazy over that song too because it's that good of a song. But
Larry (39:38.754)
uh... you know for reasons we can never always understand this is a tune that has always been part of the dead's repertoire and i'm sure part of it has to do with the fact that it's such a positive message song and uh... you know jerry really seems to enjoy it a lot bobby always seems to enjoy it a lot even though none of them can ever get the words right on it uh... it's still a fun song and um... and one that we love to hear so to open up a second set with the play-ins, uncle john's back into a play-in reprise already you've got my attention and i think
Larry (40:07.842)
Similarly, we're taking note of what was going on and we're more than likely digging themselves in and get ready for whatever rush might come next. And it did not take long because within a, literally out of the play and reprise, so making it more or less the fourth song of the second set, all the Deadheads got what they came to Hampton to hear.
Larry (42:02.974)
Yes, so it's their Dark Star. So of course that's what everybody wanted to hear and it's a great Dark Star. They played all the way through. It's about a 19-minute version. Very, very excellent. As Rob and I have talked about on other shows, this was the start of a little bit of a run of Dark Star for the Dead. They pulled it out after a number of years and they then played it again on October 26. So just a bit a little bit later this month in Miami, which I always found to be one of my favorite Dark Stars of this.
More recent vintage of the tune played by the band, but it's just great to hear Jerry doing it you know, his voice is strong and he's cranking through the lyrics and There's just sorts of all you know behind the scenes sounds that are coming out And you know, I guess it's good. The answer is you can never really quite recreate the whole acid trip scene and the Primal Dead era that kind of culminated
with the Live Dead album and the end of the acid test in the late 1960s, just before they kind of spun off into their Americana. And, you know, the Dark Star was such an important part of that period for them. And it played such an outsized prominent role in so many of their concerts. And so many of their shows would be judged on the Dark Star. And, you know, there are shows that are remembered just because of their Dark Star. And...
Deadheads want to hear that kind of stuff. Deadheads are students of history and they know all the stuff that went down before. And everybody's going to these shows every night because this is what they're looking to catch. They're looking to catch a night when the Grateful Dead throws it all down and just says, this is who we are at our core and this is what we're gonna bring to you. And it's beautiful music and it's their music, right? As we go on now, all these other bands,
whether it's Phil and Friends, even with Dednko, right? I mean, have all these other musicians who are now on the stage with Bobby or Phil or any combination of them. And these groups will go off and play Dark Star and they'll play St. Stephen and sometimes they'll even play The 11. But it's never the same. It's not the same as your 1960s with Tom Constantin on the electric keyboard, Pig Pen in there doing his thing.
Larry (44:24.162)
Bobby and Jerry, the drummers, Phil, just up there making noise for the sheer love of making noise and using Dark Star as a vehicle to do all of that and they do it great. So we have a Dark Star and now everybody's happy. Into a drums, into the space, and maybe the boys forgot where they were or forgot what year it was, but they're not done pulling out the surprises.
Larry (46:25.538)
Just a great, great tune, Death Don't Have No Mercy, written by the Reverend Gary Davis off of his 1960 Harlem Street Singer album. It's been covered a number of times by the dead. Bob Dylan, Hot Tuna, other bands from that era, meaning the late 60s, early 70s. These were very popular type of tunes for all of these psychedelic bands to kind of latch onto.
and really make hay with and this was a great one. And the Dead loved playing it. It was very much a part of the Primal Dead era and from the 1969 Fillmore West box set has a couple of great, great versions on it. Other releases by the Dead from the late 1960s have some great versions of it. It kind of went away for a while. It came back, I want to say in 90 or 91. I know they played it at Deer Creek
It made some other surprise appearances along the way. Unfortunately, I never got to hear it. And I'm always a little bit bummed by that, because I think it's just a great tune. It's very soulful. Jerry really has, plays it very, very well. And when his voice was working, there was kind of like a special feeling that came from it while he was singing it. So certainly a tune that, you know,
old-timey, you know, traditional deadheads really love, but also a tune that, you know, hopefully more of the newcomers to the world of the Grateful Dead can get behind. And then as they do get behind, make it part of their education, learning more about music. And if it takes you to the Reverend Gary Davis, all the better for you, because there's a number of great tunes and music out there that he had his hand in creating, and all of us are a lot better for it.
And anytime the Grateful Dead covers one of your songs, that's a pretty damn good sign that you've made it. So not that you need the Grateful Dead to affirm you in that regard, but it also doesn't hurt. And they love that song. They just played the heck out of it for a while. And like I say, then dropped it for a while, then brought it back for a while. And that was always another thing that was always so surprising for me. What's the point of playing it, not playing it for 10 years, playing it for two months?
Larry (48:48.718)
putting it away for another 10 years or something. But that's just what they would do with it. And that's what they do with this song. And when you hear Jerry sing it, and he's really getting into it and really appreciates, I think, its emotional aspect, its strong musical aspect, and that really comes through there, I think, in a great way. Now, very interestingly, right out of this, so now.
We've had a dark start, drum space, Death Don't Have No Mercy, and for God's sakes, people could be thinking, we're gonna get The Eleven next, we're gonna get Love Light next, we're gonna get all sorts of great things next, and in fact they did, it just wasn't some more grateful dad at that moment. From the Death Don't Have No Mercy, they go right into another fantastic cover of Trafix, Dear Mr. Fantasy, and right around this time, they had started doing this.
on the back end of the Dear Mr. Fantasy, segueing over into the Hey Jude reprise, not doing the whole song, although once or twice Brent would sneak in the entire song and it was always fun to hear him do that. But the Hey Jude reprise, the Dear Mr. Fantasy was done quite a bit. And then we get to the next song we're gonna feature here. And this is a song that was a little bit of a newcomer to Deadheads, but I think it's one that has been
uh, taken in and adopted and, um, the song that, you know, everybody gets up off, off their, up onto their feet and ready to dance, uh, when they hear Bobby go into it.
Larry (51:56.046)
Throwing Stones, great tune on the In the Dark album in 1987, but they were playing this song as early as 1982. The first time they played it was September 17th, 1982 in Portland, Maine. I don't think I saw it in 82, but I definitely started seeing it a lot in 1983. And then from there on, it became a, this was a regular Closer, Throwing Stones and Do Not Fade Away, which could be a great Closer.
But if you were in the middle of a show and they had just been pulling out special stuff, there was always a part of you, I think, that said, maybe they won't play that tonight. But then they would. And be like, oh, OK. But then 30 seconds after that, you're into it. And you're like, no, this is great. You know, very, very happy with it. But it's great. It's so seamlessly, they combine the new and the old. They go back and they pull out these old tunes that they were playing back in the 1960s. And they, you know,
just interspersed them with tunes that they wrote in the late 60s, that they wrote in the 70s, that they wrote in the 80s. And they all sound great together. And the people that are there love all of it and appreciate each one of those different time spans for its own and for the music that came out of it and what we all got out of it. And when I saw them play St. Stephen in Madison Square Garden in 1983, they went from St. Stephen into throwing stones. And it was the same kind of a thing.
where we all said, wow, how cool is this? They just took one of their anchor tunes, one of the central tunes of all of Grateful Deaddom, and they're immediately following it up with one of their newest tunes. And it was a very cool experience then too. And I think it shows not only their ability, but their desire to link up the different sides of their touring and professional careers.
And it's their way of kind of saying, at least in my view, any one of these songs to us is just as special as a St. Stephen, as a Dark Star, as a Death Don't Have No Mercy. And I think that's one of the things about the Dead, that they were very happy playing any of their tunes. And while I'm sure they were somewhat tuned in maybe to what the Deadheads were looking for and all of that, I think that they were also doing what they wanted to do. And well, they should.
Larry (54:22.474)
This is their party. They put it together and so they should very much have the right to kind of pick the playlist that goes along with it and how it's all gonna sound and And they do that And good for them. It's a great way. I think to see a band is one that Keeps bringing in new people based on its current musical output But still maintains its musical base
based on the quality and the longevity and the just complete amazing music compositions that are all of this early Grateful Dead music that once you've heard it and once it's kind of gotten into your soul, there's really no way to get rid of it and you just kind of write it out for the rest of your life and say, this is pretty cool. And if you got a joint, you smoke them and you kick back and you have a good time and it works out really, really well for everybody. So.
It's just a great show to see them going back and forth like this. So, right, so we come out of drums with Death Don't Have No Mercy, Dear Mr. Fantasy, The Hey Jude reprise, Throwing Stones, they close out the night on a really fantastic Good Lovin' and Good Lovin' again is another one of those tunes. My good buddy Alex always says, anytime the dead played Good Lovin', everybody goes home with a smile and that's true. It's a fun song, Bobby really enjoys it. It's got a great upbeat tune and you never really saw them struggling through a Good Lovin'.
When they were playing it, they always had the energy. And that's a great way to play themselves out of the second set. And right at that point, everybody's sitting around wondering, hmm, what's coming next? Are we done? We got an encore coming up. What could it be? Hopefully something great, I'm sure. There's all sorts of thoughts that could be entering people's minds as to what they might be likely to pull out of their hats at this particular point in time. And we will get to that tune in one minute.
But suffice it to say that these shows were so great that they're part of a two-show box set and even with the Warlocks, it's a very cool box set that comes in a wooden box that looks a lot like a cigar box with a top that slides off. It's got little grooves on the side and then they've got however many different CDs make up the whole set in there and they've got pins and they've got little news articles and they've got...
Larry (56:51.85)
all sorts of fun tchotchkes maybe a lot of people wouldn't care about but the true deadhead nerds just love and can't get enough of and you know it just keeps piling up more and more in my what I call my music room in my house where I just keep all my CDs and you know after a while it almost outgrows itself it's impossible almost to really keep it in a true coherent fashion and instead you just learned where was last place I had this disc over here fine boom I got it okay good now I'm ready to rock and roll again
So, again, great stuff this week. Lots happening in the marijuana world, mostly positive. Always a few things that we see as a pushback, but just part of the growing pains, and we've said it once and we'll say it a thousand times, if being in industry means going through a lot of these types of headaches, then give me the headaches all day long because the industry is so important that it really does need to exist. And...
But it will exist because the people who are currently running the industry, I think, are committed and devoted to it and aren't going to be scared off by more mainstream society trying to throw a variety of hurdles and roadblocks in their way. And once it's out, it's out. People were smoking marijuana in this country for years and years behind the scenes. Now they're doing it on the front cover. And law enforcement's got to decide how they really want to handle it.
Hopefully they're just gonna get to the point where they say, oh, the hell with it. It's just not worth it anymore. People gotta smoke and they're gonna smoke. And it's silly for us to sit here and try and stop it or make too big of a deal out of it. So with all that being said, another good week for us, because any week that we have legal marijuana, it's a good week. Please join us again coming up soon when we will have lots of good people on the show. We're gonna have some more topics to cover. I'm gonna send you off now with the encore from 10.
989, it's a beautiful Addicts of My Life, another tune that they just kind of pulled out of thin air that hadn't been played in a long, long time. The harmonizing is beautiful, the original harmonizing on the American Beauty album, the skills were taught to them by Crosby, Stills and Nash as kind of a quid pro quo for Jerry playing pedal steel on wooden ships in some of their other tunes.
Larry (59:16.182)
And they all helped each other out back then. And the harmonizing is really beautiful. And even here in 1989 with their older scratchier voices, they're still able to do what the crowds appreciates the effort. And a night at Hampton Coliseum, seeing the Warlocks becomes a rousing success for those that made it. They got to see a good solid show. They got to see great breakouts and they get to go home after a wonderful encore. So enjoy.
Addicts, we will talk to you next week. Be safe and enjoy your cannabis responsibly. Thanks everyone.