"Robbie Robertson's Musical Legacy: A Journey Through His Songs and Impact" Larry Mishkin departs from the usual format and focuses on musician Robbie Robertson of The Band. While discussing Robertson's impact and legacy, Larry also touches on his collaborations with Martin Scorsese and his solo career. The episode highlights Robertson's contributions to rock and roll history, including his famous songs like "Up on Cripple Creek" and "Broken Arrow." Produced by PodConx
"Robbie Robertson's Musical Legacy: A Journey Through His Songs and Impact"
Larry Mishkin departs from the usual format and focuses on musician Robbie Robertson of The Band. While discussing Robertson's impact and legacy, Larry also touches on his collaborations with Martin Scorsese and his solo career. The episode highlights Robertson's contributions to rock and roll history, including his famous songs like "Up on Cripple Creek" and "Broken Arrow."
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Jay Blakesberg - https://podconx.com/guests/jay-blakesberg
Larry (00:26.67)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Deadhead Cannabis Show. I'm Larry Mishkin of Michigan Law in Chicago. And today's going to be a little bit of a departure from our normal format. Not a lot of Grateful Dead talk today. We will be playing some Grateful Dead music because of course we will. And we'll be discussing a little bit of marijuana because that's what we do here. But today the show is going to focus on an individual musician outside of the
immediate world of the Grateful Dead. And it's one of those days where it's a little bittersweet because although Robbie Robertson is truly one of the, you know, top echelon American rock and roll legends, excuse me, Canadian rock and roll legends, let's give a proper do there, he was Canadian. Um, it's just a loss for everybody. And we're going to be playing the music of Robbie Robertson today and no way better than to dive right in with Robbie in one of his tunes.
Larry (02:46.242)
So anyone who knows anything about rock and roll, and you know, most of us, I think, who like to listen to stuff like this, that's up on Cripple Creek. That's a Robbie Robertson tune with the band. The vocals are by Levon Helm. He's primarily the drummer, but that's too narrow of a slot for Levon, who passed away a few years back. But make no mistake, Robbie wrote the songs. And like I say, he would get assistance from the others, sometimes on the lyrics, sometimes on the music.
But they're mostly all credited to him. But he wasn't always the lead singer. And I think that on the one hand, that's everything you kind of want in the leader of a rock band, a guy who has talents but shares them all around. Obviously, Trey comes to mind. And even Jerry and Bobby do a certain degree in that regard.
Larry (03:37.774)
But you know, they were Robbie's tunes. And this particular recording of Up on Cripple Creek is taken from The Last Waltz. That's their 1978 show, their farewell concert at the Winterland Ice Arena in San Francisco on Thanksgiving 1978. And it's a live album. It's a Martin Scorsese documentary, if you've never seen it.
highly recommended because it's all of the band's music and then some performed by some of the greatest rock and roll legends ever and uh... you do yourself a real disservice if you haven't ever seen the last waltz buying the cd or the album or however kids listen to it these days uh... is still a good thing uh... you always should have the music available so if anybody ever says something about the band you can just whip it out there and throw it on the
turntable or the CD deck or whatever it is and crank out the tune and it's a wonderful tune. It's the fifth song on the band's self-titled second album released in 1969 on Capitol Records. The song reached number 25 on the Billboard Hot 100. This is the opening song from The Last Waltz, again, their farewell concert. And even though there's a little official Last Waltz intro or something like that.
The first song they come out with is up on Cripple Creek. And right away you can see the energy of Robbie playing, having a great time, joined by all of his bandmates up on stage. And the band was really quite a setup with Robbie and Levon and then Richard Manuel, Garth Hudson, Rick Danko, a few others filtered in and out from time to time, but that was the core of the band.
The band started out in the Toronto area in 67 or so, a little bit earlier than that. And in fact, in 1965 and 66, they served as the touring band for Bob Dylan's tour, which was significant because it was Dylan's first tour playing electric guitar. And so these guys all fit right in and they really got to play in 67. They kind of split off and went out as the band.
Larry (05:59.242)
format in which they played through the last waltz. And then they did briefly get back together in 1983, without notably without Robbie Robertson, who at that point had gone off with his solo career, both in terms of recording new music and writing music and scores for movies and TV shows, and just being generally a very, very successful musician. And tragically,
All of the guys in the band are dead except for Garth Hudson, who's holding strong at 86 and still occasionally showing up and playing a little bit of keyboard, in particular his very famous and well-known introduction from the Sonic Chest Fever. But Robbie just died, of course, the other day on August 4th. Levon Helm died in 2012. Rick Danko died in 1999 and Richard Manuel was the first to go.
uh... in nineteen eighty six and uh... excuse me i said august fourth that's not true at all uh... rick uh... robbie robertson died on august ninth which of course is significant because that's the same day that jerry garcia died uh... so i was uh... jumping ahead to another performer who we lost to will be talking about the minute uh... but
But Robbie Robertson did in fact pass away on August 9th, the same day Jerry died. Robbie passed away at his home in Los Angeles. He was always known for his extensive work, like I said, in the 70s, along with Bob Dylan with the band and then teaming up with Martin Scorsese. Robbie was 80 when he died, which puts him right around the same age category that Jerry would be within a year or two. So you know, they're all part of that same era, that same...
uh, genre of musician, a little bit different, I guess, considering where they started, but they really kind of wound up in the same place together, uh, musically. Um, Robbie had recently completed his 14th film music project with one of his frequent collaborators. Uh, again, Martin Scorsese called Killers of the Flower Moon. Uh, so again, he was, uh, early life was spent in Toronto. He would often head over to the Six Nations.
Larry (08:21.578)
Reserve where much of his maternal family resided. He is part Indian, I believe his mother is Native American, and his father is Jewish, actually. At the Reserve, he learned to play his guitar, was introduced to rock and roll and rhythm and blues by way of the radio. As a teenager, he began shadowing American singer, Ronnie Hawkins, and then Robertson joined the musical group known as the Hawks, which largely included Levon Helm on drums.
Rick Danko on bass, Richard Manuel on piano, and Garth Hudson on organ, the instruments that they all went on to play with the band. Ultimately, those guys joined Bob Dylan's highly regarded tour. His first electrical run took place in 65 through 66. They all came together for the informal recording sessions called the Basement Tapes, the year after the Dylan tour. And it was during the Basement Tapes period when Robbie and the others honed in on their desired sound, eventually.
locking up a contract with Capitol Records led to their debut album, one of the great rock and roll albums of all time. If you don't have it, this is a must for your record collection. Music from the Big Pink, four of his numbers on that initial album are famous, you know, well known and those include The Way, Chest Fever, Caledonia Mission, and To Kingdom Come. After playing for a number of years,
I'm sorry, I kept saying 1978. That's the year the movie came out. The last Waltz actually took place in Thanksgiving 1976. My bad on that. But with, with tension flaring, after that 1976 Thanksgiving concert at Winterland, they moved on and it was time for them to go in different directions. I think that there was a lot of tension over.
Robbie being the primary songwriter and who was and was not getting credits and royalties. I'm sure there were a lot of issues, none of it ultimately really matters. But the band is one of the greatest rock and roll bands of all time. Not only do they write some of the greatest songs and perform them, and perform in some of the, they were part of the Watkins Glen Show, I believe in 1973, with the Grateful Dad and the Allman Brothers.
Larry (10:37.91)
big three-show bill which was at the time at least the largest crowd ever assembled in human history at least in recorded human history had over 600,000 making it three times larger almost than the reported crowd at Woodstock and you know the fact that the dead of the Almans were teaming up at that point in time I don't think was any real secret or mystery to anybody but
the fact that the band joined in was great for them. That's up in their part of the world in upstate New York. And what an opportunity for them to get to go out and do it. And then all the way through Thanksgiving 1976. But after that time, Robbie made time for a musical career, also doing a little bit of acting and screenwriting. He released a self-titled debut album in 1987. We'll be hearing from that shortly.
and followed up the release album, The Storyville, in 1991, which included guest appearances from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Ringo Starr, Neil Diamond, and others. He remained friends with Scorsese, and the pair shared creative endeavors with Robertson, considering contributing music to films such as Raging Bull, Casino, The Wolf of Wall Street, The Irishman, and more. So I mean, you know, these are some of Scorsese's greatest movies. And you know, there's Robbie Robertson, this amazing rock and roll guy playing a role in all of that.
He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1994, received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Academy of Songwriters in 1997, and then as we said, was working on Killer of the Flower Moon, which was due out later this year. So all in all, we're just talking about a guy. I think it's really kind of hard to understand and appreciate the impact that he had on musicians, but maybe a really good way to judge.
at least how musicians are looked at by their contemporaries, is if any of their contemporaries ever take the time to play or cover a musician's tune. And in the case of Robbie Robertson, everybody played his songs, not the least of which was Jerry Garcia, The Grateful Dead, Phil and Friends. And so for our next number here, we're gonna dive into a well-known band classic being performed by the Jerry Garcia Band.
Larry (14:36.514)
That's the Jerry Garcia Band from November 9th, 1991 at the Hampton Coliseum in Hampton, Virginia. A legendary venue for The Grateful Dead, for Fish, and any number of other bands that have played there over the years. That's also from a show that was released by the Garcia Estate on Pure Jerry, Volume 7. If you don't have it, I can highly recommend it. Run out and get it. That's a great version of that song and a great version of a lot of songs.
uh... that garcia plays on that one he always uh... like to jam in hampton coliseum uh... and the night they drove old dixie down again as a robertson tune with in the band's context levon helm doing the uh... the lead singing it was also on their uh... second album uh... self-titled released in nineteen sixty nine and rabbi always said that the song talked about the last days of the civil war the suffering of white southerners and uh...
My first exposure to the song, and I'm guessing for a lot of people, was in 1971 when Joan Baez recorded the song and made it into a pop hit that got a lot of AM and early FM airplane, ultimately reached number three on the, on the U S charts. But Garcia really took it and kind of made it his own in this way. And the first time I heard it, I didn't know if I liked it or not, because it was just so slow, so much slower than what I was used to hearing Joan Baez singing. And I had
If I had ever heard the band sing it, I didn't know or didn't understand it at that time. I did come to know, obviously, later on that it was their song and heard it and saw the band in concert a number of times during my college years because they did come back in 1983 with a version of the band, like we said, that did include Robbie Robertson, but all the rest of the guys. And they came in and played at a small bar in Ann Arbor where a group of us were able to get in and see them there.
And then they played in the Syracuse Carrier Dome as an opening act for the Grateful Dead in 1983 when they played out there. And one or two other times when I was lucky enough to catch them in concert, and always a great treat. And never again, never with Robbie Robertson, like never sing the Allman Brothers with Dwayne Allman, and never sing Little Feet with Lowell George. And the list just kind of goes on and on, unfortunately for all of us. But I love that Joan Baez version,
Larry (17:03.914)
When I saw the first time I saw Garcia at stages just outside of St. Louis in 1983 with the Jerry Garcia band and they played it, for me it was the highlight of the show. I was so excited to hear him play it at that moment and it didn't even really bother me how slow it was. It was just, there was Jerry about 10 feet in front of me and playing on this tune that I knew really well from a different period of my musical life a few years earlier, but to get to hear him playing it.
was great, but that's certainly one of my all-time favorite band tunes. And then next, as long as we're showing off some of the guys from the Grateful Dead, this is a song that the Grateful Dead actually did pick up by way of Phil Lesh.
Larry (19:06.038)
That of course is Broken Arrow. Again, Robbie Robertson created tune. That was The Grateful Dead with Phil taking the lead vocals from June 21, 1995 at the Knickerbocker Arena in Albany, New York. Robbie released the tune in October of 1987 on his first solo album, which was in fact just called Robbie Robertson.
It won the Juno Award for Album of the Year, and the Juno Awards are the Canadian Music Industry Awards, I guess the Canadian version of the Grammy. And given his Canadian roots, Robbie won the award up there at least, and that's one of my favorite albums. I love the Robbie Robertson solo album. There's just any one of a number of great tunes. We're gonna pick up another one towards the end of the show. But...
He, this is, was his tune Broken Arrow. Now Rod Stewart actually recorded a version of Broken Arrow in 1991 for his album Vagabond Heart. His version of the song was released as a single in August of 91 with an accompanying music video reaching number 20 on the US Billboard Hot 100 chart and number two in Canada. And of course, even though he's not here to defend himself, I will say that my sometimes co-host,
Rob Hunt confessed that he thought that it was a Rod Stewart song. So it's rare that I get one that I can pull past him, but that's why I keep bragging about it because I really don't have very many others to brag about. But Rod did record it and I do have vague memories of it from back in the day. And the song is also not to be confused with Chuck Berry's 1959 single of the same name or a Buffalo Springfield song written by Neil Young in 1967.
This is its own very unique tune and it's great. The first time that Dad performed was February 23rd, 1993 at the Oakland Coliseum. Played it for the last time on July 2nd, 1995 at Deer Creek. They played it a total of 35 times. It was also covered by the group The Dead, by Phil and Friends, and by the other ones, always sung by Phil. And one of those tunes that he put into his repertoire.
Larry (21:24.043)
along with Tom Thumb's Blues and of course Box of Rain and
Larry (21:30.078)
unbroken chain and you know always great to get to hear Phil sing back in the day with the dead. It was a nice departure and fun even though we knew his voice wasn't as good you know in later years when Phil's trying to sing lead on all of them it can be a little more torturous but you gotta love the guy you gotta love his energy you gotta love the fact that he's out there doing it so who the hell am I to say that his voice doesn't sound good but when he gets Warren Haynes in there to sing the vocals we all like it just a little bit better just saying. So yeah Broken Arrow.
Robbie Robertson tune. Uh, now Robbie's death, um, was greeted with a lot of, uh, shock and dismay in the rock and roll industry. And a lot of great rock and roll folk out there had something to say about it one way or the other. Uh, but I'll just focus for a minute on, uh, you know, maybe it was one guy who's not, uh, the grateful dad and who's not fish and who not is, is not known as a jam band player.
but still plays concerts longer than any of them. And I'm talking about, of course, the boss, Bruce Springsteen. And as it turns out, on August 9th, the boss was playing at Wrigley Field right here in Chicago. I'll cut to the spoiler alert that I was not at the show. I was with my family out in lovely East Glacier Park, out in Montana. Unfortunately, not being able to head over to West Glacier Park because of poor air quality over there. And...
uh, people in our group who were, uh, high risk for bad air quality for various reasons, mostly good ones. And, um, so we, uh, we, we took an early exit, but not early enough to be able to come home and see the boss on, uh, August 9th at Wrigley field. So, uh, he began the second leg of his tour that night. Uh, the concert, um, started just a few hours after news broke about Robbie Robertson passing.
And in honor of Robbie's memory, Springsteen closed the night by dedicating the song, I'll see you in my dreams to Robertson. Before delivering the sentimental lyrics to the song, which appeared on the East street bands, 2020 LP letter to you. He directed his song choice, sharing to my good friend, Robbie Robertson. And then lit into a version of I'll see you in my dreams, which I'm sure had everyone.
Larry (23:53.514)
least those who are Robbie Robertson fans, which I hope would be most of the people there with a tear or two running down their cheek. But Springsteen wasn't the only one, and not even the only one of the East Street band, because another guy who speaks out about him is Stevie Van Zandt, who's the guitarist in the East Street band. And his statement was, rest in peace, Robbie Robertson, a good friend and a genius, the band's music shocked the excess out of the Renaissance and were an essential part of the final back to the roots trend.
of the 1960s. He was an underrated, brilliant guitar player, adding greatly to Bob Dylan's best tour and best album. So, you know, that's kind of high praise, man. Stevie Van Zandt is not just some jemoke who's out there playing rock and roll, right? I mean, it would be enough that he's the lead guitar player for Bruce Springsteen, but he also happens to be one of those guys who knows as much, if not more, about rock and roll music than most people. And if you listen to his weekly musical show...
underground garage, I think it's called. If you don't, you should check it out because Stevie introduces us to stuff that at least I never heard of. I'm sure my buddy Alex has heard of it all, but he's always heard of it all. Probably Rob too, but not me. So I gotta go there to learn this stuff. And Stevie's great. He knows everybody, he's heard everybody, and he plays as well as anybody. So that's pretty high praise. And based on my experience with the band, I say it's well-earned and well-deserved. And...
It's nice when a guy like Springsteen, who's really so big and, you know, and everything in his own right, takes the time to, uh, to note that and to honor that and for Stevie Vanzant to come out and say the things he did and, and all, uh, as I say again, a lot of other guys in the industry all have quotes and they're all basically the same thing, you know, in terms of praising Robbie, both as a person and as a musician, as a creative genius and, uh, you know, really just being a part of some of the greatest music.
you know, they're probably defined one of the greatest eras of music we've ever had. Uh, another band who was very, very instrumental to that, uh, period of time and really bringing some great rock and roll to both sides of the Atlantic is the Kinks and on August 4th, there we go. I was just thinking ahead. We lost John Gosling, uh, who spent the 1970s as the Kinks keyboard player, uh, adding a new dimension to the guitar based sound that had been
Larry (26:22.486)
the backbone of their 1960 hits. He augmented the eccentric visions of their leader and main songwriter, Ray Davies, and was central to the band establishing a new fan base in the US. He played on 10 albums by the Kinks. He was born in Paynton, Devon, sorry guys, on February 6, 1948. He performed his first band, he formed his first band, the Challengers, with a friend after they heard the Kinks perform long times long.
Hall, Sally, on the BBC radio show, Saturday Club. He went on to study at the Royal Academy of Music, was appointed organist of St. Andrew's church in Stoke Newington. And at the same time he had a band, Hard Rain, which played blue songs. And as the band's name suggests, Bob Dylan covers, as well as contributing to his version of the Magnificent, which also incorporated church organ and choir. In the 1970s, he was invited to contribute keyboards to a song the Kinks were working on.
that recounted an as Ignatian with a trans woman, not firsthand experience, Ray Davis insisted, and was inspired by the anything goes culture of 60s Soho. His first album of the band then was in fact, Lola versus Power Man and the Money Go Round. Part one, a satire on the pop industry, released in November, 1970 and met with universal acclaim. The Kinks were a legendarily fractious outfit, and though Gosling initially got on well with his colleagues, with his flowing locks, they named him.
John the Baptist. He found the constant disputes wearing it in 1978 after making the Misfits album. He and bassist Andy Pyle left the band. He survived by his wife Teresa. I could not find anything directly about John Gosling playing with the Grateful Dead, so I don't have any musical clips to share with you on that. But if you're just looking for some good basic English rock and roll from that period of time, I would strongly recommend any of the King's albums. But if you get their live album, you really get to hear them, I think, in a way.
that they're meant to be played and you have to be able to turn it up loud. You have to be in a place where you can just do it and yell and scream a little bit because it's a lot of fun. But you know, rest in peace John Gosling and again another member of a band that was part of the generation that I grew up with is departing us and it makes us all feel a little bit older and all a little bit sad and you know where we keep looking backwards and over our shoulders for the
Larry (28:46.242)
the Gooses and all the new bands of the world who are going to come along and replace these guys and give us some new music that we can really groove to and enjoy.
Sorry to hear about that news. On the other hand, Bill Kreutzman refuses to die and just keeps kicking around and performing. And he was just in New York last week for two concerts, Dead on the Water. First, back on August 16th, he played at the Pier 6 Pavilion in Baltimore. And on August 18th, he played at the rooftop at Pier 17 in New York. Bill's been putting out a lot of messages on social media these days.
He seems to be a bit of a natural at it. And again, we can only imagine what it would have been like if we had social media when the dead were around and playing and jamming. And can you just imagine Jerry and Bill Graham getting into it on social media for a little while and all the rest of us getting to just drop in and be flies on the wall. Um, but, uh, you know, the Kreuzman says, and DexHail to start, you know, he says, it's great to be back with these guys. Uh, we've been having such a high time and just warming up and reuniting at our rehearsal spot.
hadn't even really started to play, but the good times are instant. This is the best part, we're all smiling and we can't wait to keep playing. It's all heart and soul with this band. The musicians followed up a couple of hours later sharing more photos, what looks like the group's rehearsal, sharing praises for each member, including Tom Hamilton, also of JRad fame, really, really tremendous guitar player, Aaron Magner, Reid Mathis.
James Casey, Jeff Franca, and so-called honorary kid, Daniel Donato. Kreusman also took time to share his thoughts on the latest musician to join the lineup, Ciara Hall, saying that, it's a thrill to welcome Ciara Hall to the stage for a sold out show at Pier 17. I invited Ciara because I really just wanted to hear her voice and mandolin on some of these songs in particular. It's such an honest joy for me.
Larry (30:52.318)
And this is great, right? I mean, here's Billy, he's out there. We always knew he was fun loving. We always knew he was young at heart, even though he's one of the older guys. Um, we always knew that he had an especially close relationship with Jerry. And, uh, we always knew that he was a big fan of psychedelics and, and liking, liking to do all of that. Unfortunately, we also knew that for a couple of years, just passed, he was having some medical issues that prohibited him, uh, from being able to play full time with, uh, dead and co.
And then of course, we had the final Denko tour and the rather shocking announcement that Billy was not going to be playing with them due to creative differences again, whatever that means. But Billy and the kids is just out there rocking. So we have to assume the creative differences does not mean that medically he was incapable of playing because there he is. Um, anytime you could hear, uh, any of those musicians playing, especially together like that, uh, I would strongly suggest dropping in and
and really having a chance to listen to it because it's just, it's great stuff. And I'm so happy to see Billy out there doing it. And of course, it just makes us all wonder that if there's any kind of a future that involves at least, you know, more than one of the surviving core four, you know, it would be great to see it. And hopefully they can find a way to get themselves all back out on stage together and do the things they wanna do.
Speaking of which, we know that one guy of the core four who never stops is Phil. And here's Phil's take on at least Phil Lesh and friends take on another really, really famous Robbie Robertson tune.
Larry (33:47.438)
Acadian Driftwood, another Robbie tune, recorded with the band, came out on their sixth studio album Northern Light Southern Cross, which was released in 1975. It was a tune on which Livon Helm, Richard Manuel, Rick Danko, and Robbie trade off on lead vocals and they harmonize on the chorus, a formula that worked very well on the weight and works very well on this tune also.
This particular version of Acadia and Driftwood is played by Phil Lesh and friends, more specifically the quintet made up of Phil, Warren Haynes, Jimmy Herring, Rob Barocco and John Molo. And this is from their show on October 12th, 2021 at the Capitol Theater in Port Chester, New York, a show I was lucky enough to be at thanks to my good buddy Mikey who took me out there for my birthday that year. We had a great time and saw some tremendous music and really, really enjoyed it.
I guess part of the story behind the song is that Acadia was a North American colony started by France in 1604. And the song is about the expulsion of the Acadians, which involved Britain forcing the deportions of more than 11,000 Acadians during the French and Indian War. Known as the Acadian migration, the story is one that intrigued Robbie Robertson and ultimately led to him writing this song. In the quintet.
It was sung by Warren Haynes and Rob Barocco and played maybe just under about 50 times by various machinations of Phil and friends, the quartet included and others. It's just a great tune. It's very distinctive. It's very nice. The crowd always reacts really well to it and they play it really well. Anytime you're going to have a chance to hear Warren sing on something then, you know, you
Well, that kind of seals the deal for me. So I see that as just great stuff. And we had a great time at all of those Quintet shows, Mikey and I, with a whole group of different people. But that last night was really, really special. And that was a great cover to get to hear them do. So we've got more Robbie Robertson coming, but this is the time when we're going to shift to the other side of our show. So fire away, Dan.
Larry (36:16.45)
Is that Sonic Youth?
Dan Humiston (36:18.748)
musical youth.
Larry (36:20.606)
musical youth. Okay, I was close. I get 50% credit for that. But once again, our producer Dan Humiston showing his lighter side. And of course, why shouldn't he be as a proud father who will soon be escorting his daughter down the aisle? Mazel Tov and congratulations to him and his daughter and very exciting stuff. Glad to see things like that happening. And
There are good people on that end, those Humistons. We like them. So moving on to the world of marijuana, let me just tell you, we've got some really good stories today. And I laugh because we live in an era right now where everybody tries to pretend like there's two sides to every argument, right? People go out there and it's always, what about this and what about that, or this isn't right, or that's not right. And
know very few things on the cultural side still get hammered as hard as marijuana by those who are either truly ignorant or intentionally ignorant or just dumb. And if I cut too broad of a swath of people there, well I'm really sorry but you know the truth hurts sometimes. So let's go back and revisit this issue. Remember folks, before we dive into any of this, marijuana is currently a schedule one.
controlled substance under the Controlled Substance Act enacted by Richard Nixon way back in 1970 because he didn't like John Lennon and all the hippies and he thought they should all be in jail and that would be a good way to do it or whatever the real story is. But marijuana was thrown at number one without any real thought, really examination, and this is why it's key because in order to be a schedule one, the substance has to have no known, recognized, appreciated,
whatever words you want to use, medical benefits. For God's sakes, even cocaine is a schedule too, because there was a period of time when it was used as a painkiller by dentists when they were doing work in people's mouths. But you know, marijuana is up on schedule one, so forget about all the research that a guy like Rafael Mishulam did for 50 years on marijuana, the godfather from Israel, who really is a legend. And one of these days, again, we'll focus a little more light on him.
Larry (38:47.086)
because he's great. Forget about his research, the FDA won't accept it because it was done in Israel and not the United States, even though it was done in conjunction with the Israeli army. Modern politics notwithstanding, they've always been one of the most disciplined, well-run and most effective armies in the world. The common saying is if it's good enough for them, it should be good enough for all of us. But again, the government puts its head in the sand.
uh... even with all the medical marijuana uh... licenses out there now and doctors uh... writing their patients into the programs uh... which i suppose at a minimum doesn't mean that they're necessarily recognizing the medical benefit of it but they're certainly uh... at least recognizing that you know the worst it's going to do is cause their client to get hungry and eat a lot of potato chips uh... you know so they're willing to do these things right and they should
but people still push back and still push back. It's dangerous, it's not healthy. Health insurance premiums are gonna go through the roof because all these people who are gonna get high and get sick and on and on and on and no public benefits. And of course we've seen it study after study, after study, teenage smoking has gone down. Public benefits are everywhere, insurance, this. It's all been great news and I'm sure you guys think I'm just going into the back and recycling stories each week, but no in fact.
This week's stories are from our friends over at Marijuana Moment and Kali Yeager and the gang and we thank them as always for providing everyone with such great news into what's going on in the world of marijuana. And so let's start with story number one. Headline says it all. States with legal medical marijuana see significant and sizable reductions in health insurance premiums study fines. Okay. Let's just stop right there.
One of the largest, loudest arguments that the prohibitionists give is how, just like with cigarettes, we know that cigarettes drive up insurance premiums, marijuana's no different, for God's sakes, it's the devil's weed, so it's probably worse, and we can't have that. This is a common case of willful ignorance, right? Because we all know, we've all seen the studies, if you really wanna look at it, they're out there, even before this one comes out.
Larry (41:10.378)
Marijuana is not the same as cigarette smoke. It does not have the majority of the health risks of smoking tobacco and nicotine have for people. So you can't make these presumptions. Right, people look at me and say, oh my God, you're out there hiking, you go so fast up and down and all around, but you smoke marijuana, how can you do that?
What do you mean, how can I do that? How can I drink water and do that? How can I brush my teeth and do that? You do things and you go out and you do it. It doesn't have the actual negative consequences that everybody associates it with. And you have to see a study like this because this study takes the common misconception and really kicks it right in the nuts and says, nope, nope. Just stop making that argument. So there's a new study in the International Journal of Drug Policy.
and it found that states with legal medical marijuana enjoyed significant reduction in health insurance premiums compared to states where cannabis remained completely illegal. Analyzing a decade's worth of private health insurance data from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, researchers determined that in the years following a state's implementation of medical cannabis law, premiums dropped dramatically. While the reductions were modest immediately following implementation, the study found that by seven years afterward,
annual premiums had fallen $1,663 compared to states in the control group. Similar reductions were seen after 8 years, $1,542, and 9 years, $1,626, indicating that the decline was fairly stable over time. Although the effect does not begin until 7 years post-medical cannabis law implementation, the author concludes, there was a significant and sizable reduction in health insurance premiums in states that legalized medical marijuana.
due to the nature of insurance pooling and community rating they add, these savings are appreciated by cannabis users and non-users alike. Stop right there.
Larry (43:11.414)
We can't have marijuana. What about all the other people who don't wanna be bothered by marijuana? What about the people who, if they see you smoking, are gonna think that they're getting a secondhand high, even though we know they're not, but they'll still act like they are, right? So, benefits to users and non-users alike because you make yourself healthier for purposes of insurance determinations underwriting. And when the overall pool shows healthier,
everybody in the pool benefits. Non-users alike are benefiting. So not only is it not dangerous to the rest of you, and it's not any risk that you're taking, and you're only just ruining our fun and enjoyment, but you're actually getting a benefit out of it. And if you don't want to recognize it, don't, but you should. As the study's authors point out, the findings undermine concerns that legalization would risk increasing healthcare costs. Additional concerns about medical cannabis legalizing...
legalization leading to increases in medical care costs, which would be reflected in higher insurance premiums appear to be unfounded, they wrote. Now, of course, anybody who follows some of our real leaders in the rock and roll, okay, well, you know, it's been a long day in the marijuana movement out there. We know that this is things that there's nothing new here.
These are findings that have been made and have been promoted for a long, long time that medical marijuana smokers result in lower insurance premiums and things like that. But this is actually a study being done by an independent agency that's not a pro-marijuana
organization that's just out there to promote the drug. And they're coming out with these findings that seem to be very, very difficult to dispute. They point out that, oh, we said that. Researchers were specifically looking at individual private health plans rather than employer-sponsored insurance plans for Medicaid. The study notes that health insurance spending in the US accounts for between 16% and 34% of the average household budget. So if you can reduce that premium,
Larry (45:32.61)
That's a big savings for a lot of people. In an attempt to control for other variables, the authors focused on states where only medical marijuana was legal, excluding from the analysis, states where adult use legalization was already in effect. States in the control group, meanwhile, included those without medical cannabis or those that had passed but not yet implemented such a policy. The new paper adds to a growing body of research, a growing body of research, identifying the potential public health benefits associated with ending prohibition.
A number of studies, for example, have found that states with medical marijuana have significantly lower rates of prescribed opioids. We've talked about that. Earlier this year, a report found that adult use legalization was similar associated with reductions in opioid demand. We've talked about that. In March, a separate study determined that states with legal medical marijuana had lower opioid payments to doctors, another indication patients are using cannabis as an alternative to prescription drugs. We've talked about that. So...
What are we really saying here? We're saying, of course it has health benefits. Over and over and over and over again, study after study after study, demonstrating that marijuana has health benefits a lot more than you're getting from cocaine or some of the other schedule twos or schedule threes, you know, or schedule fours. So what the hell is marijuana doing up there? Why is this taking so long for the federal government to recognize the ridiculousness of insisting that this is a schedule one controlled substance that has no medical value?
A study published in January by the American Medical Association found that roughly one in three chronic pain patients reported using cannabis as a treatment option, and most of that group has used cannabis as a substitute for other pain medications, including opioids. A separate AMA study found an association between state-level medical cannabis legalization and significant decreases in opioid prescriptions and use among certain cancer patients. Well, we can be a country of deniers.
or we can see the writing on the wall and recognize what's really going on out there. And recognizing benefits, not just the fact that you're not gonna get sick from it. Benefits, reduction in healthcare premiums. I can't promise or guarantee that for everyone and neither can they. But again, when looked at in a control group for purposes of underwriting, an actuarial guys, whoever, however they.
Larry (47:58.03)
crunch their numbers and do that kind of stuff, this is what they came up with. And insurance companies are notorious for being tough on any kind of a substance that you put in your body. But for them, this has gotta be wonderful news because they can now stop pretending like they're testing for it when they really aren't because they wanna be able to write policies for people. And as we're about to find out, otherwise they would have a real big problem. And now because there is actually something that their underwriters and...
actuarial guys have to look at and take into account that they might be able to lower premiums and they might be able to lower the need for benefits and payouts for all those expensive opioid drugs and all the problems that they cause. But why is this great? Story number two, fully half of adult Americans have tried marijuana with current cannabis smoking outpacing cigarettes, a Gallup poll shows. Fully half of American adults have tried marijuana according to a new Gallup poll.
and more people now actively smoke cannabis than tobacco cigarettes. Thank goodness. Additionally, majority say they're not especially concerned about the effects of adults regularly using marijuana. Even better news. The survey published on well last week found that about one in six US adults, 17 percent, say that they currently smoke cannabis while separate recent Gallup polling shows that just 11 percent say they smoke cigarettes. Further, the marijuana question which asks specifically about whether people smoke the substance
likely does not reflect overall current cannabis use, given the range of non-smokable products that people consume, such as odibles, tinctures, and vapes. But when it comes to smoking, it's become clear that Americans are increasingly opting for marijuana over cigarettes. Looking at the generational data, the trend appears likely to continue. Broken down by age, 29% of those 18 to 34 say they currently smoke marijuana. In contrast, a Gallup survey from last year showed
that just 12% of people in the 18 to 29 range smoke cigarettes. The age groupings used in the polls are slightly different but close enough to be comparable. Meanwhile, with nearly half of the states in the country now having legalized marijuana, the new polls lifetime use has hit a record high of 50%, up just two percentage points from 2022, but statistically higher than 2019, when 45% they've tried cannabis. So asking if ever in your lifetime have you ever tried cannabis?
Larry (50:23.358)
50 percent, 50 percent of Americans. That's a huge number. Are we really going to sit here and pretend and say that this is too dangerous for us to use? As marijuana has become more available to Americans and legal in an increasing number of states, the reports of use and experimentation have increased too. Now, half the country has tried it, while the other half say they never have. Experimentation with marijuana among most subgroups is on par with the national average.
But the rate of current use varies and is highest among young adults. So, uh, that's not teenagers, by the way, it's young adults. So it's not just that half of Americans think that marijuana should be legal and available to people who want to smoke it. It's half of Americans have tried marijuana, have tried smoking marijuana. And if you throw in gummies and vapes and tinctures, I'm sure that number rises even to a much larger percentage.
Who's not paying attention to this? Why does everybody pretend like these stories aren't happening and these things aren't out there? Right, this is just silly. And quite frankly, it's just not the way it should be. We know everything for now that we need to know about marijuana to say that it's time to make it legal on the federal level, take it off of the controlled substances list altogether so we don't have to worry about it on any level and let people do what they want to do. And if the...
The government wants to continue testing it on the side. God bless, go ahead and test it because these results you keep coming out with are just wonderful stories that make my day and that I love being able to share with you because it gives you great fodder for the next time you confront that person who's gonna sit there and insist blindly and with their hands over their ears going la that marijuana's bad for you, there's no benefit to marijuana, only freaks smoke marijuana. Well, that may be true, but.
Right? Marijuana, just don't take it anymore, folks. You don't have to take it lying down. You don't have to take it standing up. You don't have to take it any which way because it's not true in the articles and the studies out there approving it. But here's an interesting story from a completely different angle because the Department of Justice is saying that a federal appeals court incorrectly decided that a gun ban for marijuana consumers is unconstitutional. Now, as you know, when marijuana laws came into effect, it created a real stir among gun owners.
Larry (52:43.906)
because in order to qualify for a FOIA card, you have to be able to demonstrate that you're not participating in any activity or conduct that breaks the law, and that involves any involvement, either the use or consumption or the sale or manufacture or transportation of a Schedule 1 or Schedule 2 controlled substance. And of course, marijuana is Schedule 1. So they're saying, how could you be a cultivation center owner and also own a handgun? How could you be a dispensary owner and own a handgun? How could you be a medical patient and own a handgun?
because aren't we seeing these two worlds collide? And so guess what? The 11th Circuit, well here, here's the story. The Justice Department is informed to Federal Appeals Court that it believes a separate court's ruling in a marijuana and gun rights case was incorrectly decided as it seeks a favorable decision on a related lawsuit. In a one-page brief filed on Friday, the Federal Government noticed judges on the US Circuit Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit.
that the separate U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit recently deemed the law barring cannabis consumers from buying or possessing firearms to be unconstitutional. So my bad, it was the Fifth Circuit, now they're making the argument to the Eleventh Circuit. Right, so again, the Fifth Circuit said that the law barring cannabis consumers from buying or possessing firearms is unconstitutional. So the Department of Justice can test the decision in that case, which is also relevant to a lawsuit that the Eleventh Circuit is considering.
That suit, originally filed by former Florida Agricultural Commissioner, Nikki Fried, more narrowly concerns the rights of state registered medical cannabis patients to own guns, but the basic structure of the case is the same. An attorney representing Florida medical cannabis patients in the case told Marijuana Moment last week that we've reviewed the Fifth Circuit decision and will be prepared to address it at oral argument. The federal firearms ban for cannabis consumers has been challenged in a number of courts. While the Fifth Circuit is the most powerful court to declare the parole
Two federal district courts have similarly reached that conclusion as well. The core argument at play is based on a US Supreme Court ruling late last year that says any firearm restriction must be consistent with the historical context of the Second Amendment's original 1791 ratification. Citing that last week, the Fifth Circuit said that the government failed to effectively argue that the ban has a meaningful historic analog dismissing its position that gun restriction imposed in the late 18th and early 19th century on mentally ill
Larry (55:06.146)
dangerous and actively intoxicated individuals meet the high standards set by the Supreme Court action. So for now, the Fifth Circuit decision renders the ban unlawful in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Texas. The Eleventh Circuit, meanwhile, has jurisdiction over Alabama, Florida and Georgia. If the latter court ultimately opposes the constitutionality of the ban, that would set the stage for the Supreme Court to intervene. So we'll have to see what happens on that, but I think this is a fascinating
uh... that a judge has stepped in and made that kind of ruling quite frankly this may shock some people but i think that that's a good thing i've i was always against the idea of the idea of legalizing marijuana the extra inextricably linked with the right to go to ship that there to separate battles they should not be linked people in marijuana don't be fighting the battle for the good people the gun people may want to be fighting the marijuana battle i don't know but
you know, there's no reason to bring these two issues together. They both stand and fall on their own. And, you know, that's the way it should be. So yes, as a practical matter, I don't have a problem with somebody who has a, as a licensed firearm owner from also having a dispensary license or a cultivation license, or just being a private gun owner and having a gun in their home, as long as they follow the laws and the rules of the state that they live in and federal laws, which in that case would include, uh,
If we go back and look at the old Cole Memorandum and one of its federal enforcement priorities always was if there's a gun or a weapon used in the sale or business transaction involving a Schedule I controlled substance, which of course marijuana is. So if you're in a dispensary and there's a sale of marijuana, that's a Schedule I transaction. And if your security guard has a gun and it fires either on purpose or by accident or
whatever the case may be, you're setting yourself up for a really big problem with the federal government. Now, I'm not a big fan of guns in dispensaries because I'm not a big fan of guns anywhere. But I can understand the argument, given the nature of what's in a dispensary, marijuana and cash, that some people may feel a little more comfortable with a handgun. And I don't think that it should be a restriction that says, you know, these two are mutually exclusive. You know, if you want to do something like that,
Larry (57:24.83)
and try to make it a punishment enhancer for people who sell on the black market or out on the street. If we catch you selling marijuana, that's one thing. If you're selling marijuana and there's a gun involved, it's something else. I'm not here to pass judgment on that, although I wish it would not have anything to do with marijuana at all. But certainly, in this instance, I just don't think that this is something, a fight that the folks in the marijuana industry want to watch.
want to really get behind. I know there are states like Colorado that are libertarian forever and you have to take their marijuana enthusiasm with their gun enthusiasm because it all comes from the same place. So this certainly would be a positive step for them, I imagine, and probably one of the few times I'll wind up on the same side as them when it comes to gun ownership and gun rights and gun laws in this country. But...
So some very interesting marijuana stuff going on out there. And I view most of that as being positive. We can't say this enough, tell the people who tell you all the harm about marijuana to piss off, to listen to this show, to go listen to the presentations out there, to read about it, to do everything, because it just frankly gets a little old trying to have to back it up every single time. But we will continue to do it as long as these studies come out and we get access to them. Back to our music.
Um, it's time to hear, uh, from Robbie Robertson himself. So, uh, we're going to go ahead and play a tune, uh, from his, uh, album, uh, the Robbie Robertson album.
Larry (01:00:20.778)
I love Showdown at Big Sky. It's a great tune, and it's on that Robbie Robertson album, which is another great reason to go out and buy it. It's musically tight. The lyrics are great. I love the voices. Sam Leonis from the Bodine's provides the distinctive background vocals on the song. And the Bodine's Kurt Newman.
uh... and uh... sam contributed backing vocals to somewhere down the crazy river uh... an american roulette also on the album uh... because the popularity of the boadins in their home state wisconsin showdown as big sky receive significant airplay on uh... milwaukee radio and uh... robertson single reached number forty eight the canadian top one hundred and number eight on the can-con charts it's uh... it's a really fun tune it's uh...
always great to listen to. And there are different interpretations as to the meaning of the song. And one of the interpretations is that the song is about doing drugs, Robertson's early experience with it and the hopelessness and the dangers of addiction. Another interpretation is that the song is a metaphorical, excuse me, metaphorical description of man's struggle with spiritual darkness. You know, that gets to be a little too deep for a guy like me.
So I just say it's a great tune and it has a great beat and great melody. And I find it, you know, the pace of the song to be very uplifting, good to work out too. And just something that we all should be able to appreciate and have some fun with. So that's kind of where we wind up today on our show. We've really, we've lost a legend.
And this leaves only Garth Hudson as the sole surviving member of the band. But at 86 and maybe not in the best of health, how long can Garth last? But we'll take him and all of these great rock legends as long as we can have them. Because even if they're not performing, just being around and sharing their stories and all of that is so important, I think, to those of us who have an appreciation of that music and want to be able to continue to really.
Larry (01:02:35.094)
have it be part of our lives, even when the guys who wrote it are no longer around to play it for us. So we're going to sign off here in just a minute. A couple of things really fast. Number one, as always, thanks for listening. Thank you to Dan Humiston. Congratulations to his daughter on her upcoming nuptials. And please join us again next week and in the weeks to come. We've got some great music coming up. Next week we get back to our Grateful Dead format.
uh... with uh... one of my favorite shows from that time period and by saying one of those favorite shows from my time period Deadheads in the Know will know which show I'm talking about and those that don't will know as soon as they listen to the show next week so be sure to tune in for that uh... we're going to sign off here with uh... a song that may be the band's best known song um... covered probably by more people than just about anybody out there
The weight was written by Robbie Robertson. It was first recorded by the band in 1968 as part of their debut album We talked about music from the big pink a must-get and a must-listen to album While Robertson is officially credited as the songwriter the other members of the band contributed significantly To the songs arrangement and production which seems about right would always seem to get that with the Grateful Dead right once you throw it out to the guys in the band these are all pro musicians and At least as far as their instrument is concerned
I'm sure they can typically hear things that maybe the guy who wrote the original song couldn't hear or hadn't imagined. So The Weight has become an enduring classic of American music. It's been covered by dozens and dozens of artists, including Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, The Black Crows, of course, The Grateful Dead. It's appeared in countless films and TV shows from Easy Rider to The Big Lebowski. What we're listening to here in a minute on our way out the door is The Grateful Dead's breakout version of the song.
on March 28, 1990 in Nassau County Coliseum out on Long Island. It was last played on March 23, 1985 in Charlotte, North Carolina. Dead played it 41 times, almost always as an encore, but interestingly, this version, the breakout version, was played mid-second set and really kind of caught the fans by surprise, I think. But when they caught up to what the Dead were doing, it was something really special. So...
Larry (01:04:55.586)
Grateful Dead from NASA on March 28th, 1990. The Way, thank you all for listening. See you next week. Be good, have fun, and stay healthy, and enjoy your cannabis responsibly.
Dan Humiston (01:05:15.859)
Yeah, it didn't play. I don't know.