Adapting to the Grateful Dead Culture: Mark Karan discusses the welcoming yet challenging atmosphere stepping into a tight-knit group like the Grateful Dead. Larry Mishkin is joined by special guest, Mark Karan, a musician well known in Grateful Dead circles. They discuss Mark's experience playing with "The Other Ones" after Jerry Garcia's passing, as well as his time with Ratdog and reflections on the dynamics within these groups. They touch on topics such as the challenges of stepping into Jerry Garcia's shoes, the camaraderie among band members, and the influence of substances on musical performance. Additionally, they explore the enduring legacy of Grateful Dead music and fan reactions to different types of songs performed in concerts. Mark expresses his frustration with some Deadheads' reluctance to embrace non-Grateful Dead music, emphasizing the band's eclectic influences and the importance of openness to new sounds.
Adapting to the Grateful Dead Culture: Mark Karan discusses the welcoming yet challenging atmosphere stepping into a tight-knit group like the Grateful Dead.
Larry Mishkin is joined by special guest, Mark Karan, a musician well known in Grateful Dead circles. They discuss Mark's experience playing with "The Other Ones" after Jerry Garcia's passing, as well as his time with Ratdog and reflections on the dynamics within these groups. They touch on topics such as the challenges of stepping into Jerry Garcia's shoes, the camaraderie among band members, and the influence of substances on musical performance. Additionally, they explore the enduring legacy of Grateful Dead music and fan reactions to different types of songs performed in concerts. Mark expresses his frustration with some Deadheads' reluctance to embrace non-Grateful Dead music, emphasizing the band's eclectic influences and the importance of openness to new sounds.
https://www.facebook.com/mark.karan.79/
The Other Ones, Alpine Valley Music Center, East Troy, WI
INTRO: Dark Star
Track #2
7:00 - 8:30
SHOW No. 1: Sugaree
Track #4
0:40 – 2:193
SHOW No. 2: Sugaree
Mark Karan and Robin Sylvester (RatDog bassist, passed away in 2022)
Terrapin Crossroads
San Rafael, CA
September 1, 2013
Grateful Dead - "Ship Of Fools" - by Mark Karan & Robin Sylvester (youtube.com)
0:30 – 2:00
SHOW No. 3: The Other One
Mark Karan and Scott Guberman, et al
Cage Brewing
St. Petersburg, FL
November 16, 2023
Mark Karan, Scott Guberman, Other One~ Cage Brewing St Pete 11/16/23 - YouTube
3:50 – 5:20
SHOW No. 4: The Eleven
Track #16 (Other One’s Link at the top)
2:30 – 4:06
OUTRO:
OUTRO: Rodeo
Mark Karan
0:00 – 1:29
Larry (00:39.57)
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Deadhead Cannabis Show. I'm Larry Mishkin of Mishkin Law in Chicago. Welcome back to our long time listeners and for new listeners, you won the lottery. You picked a great day to be here. We have a wonderful, wonderful guest. We're gonna be speaking today with Mark Karan, a man well known in grateful dead circles. We're gonna be getting the chance to ask him some questions here, what he has to say, get caught up on what he's doing.
But as we always do, let's get started in one of the shows we're going to feature today. Mark played in the other ones, which was one of the first dead conglomerations after Jerry died. I was lucky enough to catch the show of July 11th, 1998 at Alpine Valley in East Troy, Wisconsin. And right out of the box, this is what they featured.
Dan Humiston (03:00.782)
Yeah, I'm new.
I'm not muted.
Larry (03:06.258)
Well, I guess if you're gonna come right out as the first dead conglomeration following Jerry's passing, Dark Star is a hell of a way to get the crowd going. We're talking today with Mark Karan, who was up on stage that day. And Mark, first of all, welcome to our show. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today.
Dan Humiston (03:24.974)
my pleasure.
Larry (03:26.994)
very cool so tell us what it was like Jerry dies in 95 the deadheads are all kind of wandering trying to figure out what to do waiting to see what's going to happen the next thing we know there's this group the other ones coming out you're part of it and what's it like to step into Jerry Garcia's shoes
Dan Humiston (03:48.558)
That never happened. I never stepped into Jerry Garcia's shoes. Nobody did. That's not a possibility. Jerry was far too unique and special and magical a human being, yet far too much to too many millions of people for me or Kimmok or Jimmy Herring or Warren or JK or anybody to step into his shoes. Nobody could fill those shoes.
Larry (04:15.538)
you know what that's a great answer if i had been smart i would have thought about the question a little bit before i asked it but nevertheless there you are up on stage at least standing in the spot more or less where jerry used to stand providing a target to a crowd of deadheads who just you know were worse word at that point were starving for for live grateful dead music it must be a pretty incredible feelings
Dan Humiston (04:24.91)
Thank you.
Dan Humiston (04:39.534)
yeah, absolutely. I'm always a little iffy on the use of the term ironic, but in a way it seemed really ironic to me because I had grown up listening to that stuff. I'm old enough that I saw the dead a lot between 1966 and maybe 74 and 75. And then I moved on to other music. I was a developing musician and I had loved that band for 10 years.
Continue to love them, but I didn't continue to listen because I wanted to hear other music And so when I got the call in 1998
Dan Humiston (05:22.862)
There was no party that thought I would get the gig. You know, I just was like super excited at the opportunity to play with them.
And then lo and behold, they chose me out of the collection of folks. And then a couple of days later, they decided they wanted to take both myself and Steve Kimmach. And yeah, it was pretty magical. I mean, you know, being on stage with Bob and Phil and Brucie and Mickey and, you know, being in the middle of playing these songs and looking around the stage and realizing who I was playing them with was...
Intimidating and wonderful.
Larry (06:02.258)
That's great. You know, I mean, that's like every every deadheads dream, you know, who grew up at home picking away on their electric guitar thinking, you know, I can I can pick up this quarter that court. And, you know, here you are actually up there doing it. How did you and Kimmich decide or how was it decided who was going to play what parts, you know, that Jerry would have played and how did that all work out?
Dan Humiston (06:24.494)
We're talking about the Grateful Dead here. There were no rules. There was no advice. There was no plan. Steve and I were just thrown into the mix, okay? We're gonna take two lead guitar players and basically we were on our own. I mean, I absolutely, you know, we go for whatever felt right as best as possible, but I absolutely remember one show. I don't remember what song it was or specifically what show it was.
But I remember the section of the song came up where there was supposed to be guitar solo stuff going on and Steve looking at me like, you gonna go? And I'm looking at Steve like, I don't know, you gonna go? And finally, Bill turns his face and goes, somebody play something! It's hilarious.
Larry (07:01.87)
huh.
Larry (07:06.866)
Ha ha ha ha.
Larry (07:15.814)
my god, see these are the kind of stories we love to hear. What were they like? I mean, was it welcoming to step into this group that had been so tight for so long?
Dan Humiston (07:26.254)
Well, yes and no. I mean, yes, they were welcoming overall, but yeah, you know, you're not, you're not wrong that there was, it was a very tight knit insular thing for decades. You know, they were, they were deep, deep, deep brothers. And, and there was a lot of,
history there and I wasn't a part of that history and Steve wasn't a part of that history you know so we felt like they wanted us it's not like we didn't feel like we wanted you know they wanted us to be there or anything but we were definitely the new kids and went behind the ears and not in the in crowd.
Larry (08:04.164)
No, no, no, I get that. You kind of have to earn your stripes maybe as you go along and work your way up the ladder. And you know the...
Dan Humiston (08:12.27)
Yeah, you can even do that. I mean, I see a lot of examples of bands, not just the Dead, bands that were together for many, many, many years, and some of the members passed or left the group or whatever. And they bring new people in, and the new people are wonderful, but they're never going to be the original people. I love Warren and Derek, and they really became the Allman Brothers, but they were never going to be Wayne and Dickie.
Larry (08:40.146)
I was just thinking, Warren, I was just thinking those two guys. If you hadn't brought it up, I was gonna bring it up, because I never got to see Dwayne Allman. I never got to see some of those guys. When I first started seeing the Allmans, probably in the mid to late 80s, we were just thrilled to get whatever we got, and then by the time it became clear it was gonna be Warren and Derrick, I know I miss Dwayne, but overall I'm very happy with what I saw. It's just, you know, it's the...
Dan Humiston (09:05.934)
Well, those guys are amazing. I mean, Derek is probably, for my money, Derek is certainly one of, if not the, preeminent...
new guitar player in the world. You know, I mean, he's amazing. But yeah, I'm with you. You know, Dwayne and Nick were unique and that's where that started. And in the same sense, Jerry was unique and that's where it started. Nope, like I said earlier, nobody was ever going to actually take his place. And they weren't looking for that. They weren't looking for another central figure. They weren't looking necessarily for another guitar god, if I can use that kind of term. They just wanted to be able to...
Larry (09:22.77)
say that about him all the time in fact I'm sorry go ahead.
Dan Humiston (09:45.264)
to play and they needed that voice.
Larry (09:50.45)
and well then even that raises, right? You're like singing, were you guys just trading off on, on Jerry tunes or lyrics?
Dan Humiston (09:58.734)
Sorry, did you say that again? I missed it.
Larry (10:00.658)
Yeah, the singing part of it. Who was doing the singing roles that Jerry had done?
Dan Humiston (10:09.838)
Bobby and Bruce and Phil. I'm, you know, I say, I say in backup vocals, but I was never tasked in that band or in Ratt Dock for that matter. I was never tasked with being a lead singer in that, in that milieu.
Larry (10:27.25)
Okay, now was it your years with Ratdog or playing with Bobby? How did that line up in terms of you also being picked to be a member of the other ones? Which came first? Where did they know you from first?
Dan Humiston (10:40.238)
no, the other ones absolutely came first. In fact, it was really funny because at that point in the band's lifespan or whatever, they were really, really adamant about wanting to continue to develop and not wanting to sound like they had sounded with Jerry. So the interesting thing was, you know...
Play Like You Never Heard, Jerry, was kind of the prevalent thing. And after I had done all those other ones tours, Bobby and the rest of the guys in Ratt Dogg capped me to come and try out for the band. And I did. And initially, they said, thanks, we're going to pass. And the reasoning from what I understood was,
Larry (11:26.866)
Ha ha ha!
Dan Humiston (11:31.854)
that I sounded too much like Jerry, which is odd because a lot of people have told me they don't think I sound like Jerry at all. So I guess it's all perspective. But initially I did not get the gig and it actually went to a guy named Dave McNabb, who's a great guitar player in his own right, but he's a little bit more from the jazz R &B world. And they did a tour with him for a couple of weeks and determined that that was not necessarily a great fit.
Larry (11:38.258)
Ha ha.
Larry (11:59.186)
Okay.
Dan Humiston (11:59.246)
And when they got home from that tour, they called me up and said, actually, we would like to play with you. That's kind of how that came about. But it was all post other ones. The other ones was absolutely my introduction into all that.
Larry (12:04.69)
Okay, better late than never.
Larry (12:13.298)
Okay, okay, and then you've played with Ratdog pretty much for the duration, correct?
Dan Humiston (12:20.398)
Yeah, I mean, you know, the first couple of years I wasn't there because I think Rad Dogg actually technically started in 95 as an outgrowth of Bob and Rob. But by 98, I guess, you know, the general gist was everybody wanted to hear that music with the lead guitar player and there hadn't been one.
Larry (12:39.954)
Right? Right.
Dan Humiston (12:41.582)
So I was brought in in October of 98, I think my first gig with the band was. And yeah, I mean, apart from when I was sidelined with my cancer, I was there for the whole thing up through the Sweetwater and TRI reunions in 2012. So, what was that, 14 years?
Larry (13:00.306)
Excellent. Any talk of rat dog ever reappearing?
Dan Humiston (13:06.606)
not that i've heard, i mean i won't never say never but you know i have the sense that wolf brothers is doing for bob what rat dog used to do for bob that he has his his original sandbox where he can kind of be super creative and super driven by bob's unique thing as opposed to having to live up to any existing grateful dead thing
Larry (13:19.122)
Sure.
Dan Humiston (13:35.47)
So I think he's got that covered, but who knows? At some point you might want to do it just because it'd be fun to see old friends and play together because it hasn't happened in a long time.
Larry (13:44.914)
Excellent. What about DeDenco? What's your feeling on them? Have you seen them play?
Dan Humiston (13:52.11)
No, I, you know, to be honest, I mean, a thousand times over more power to anybody that loves that and wants to go see that. I don't go to a lot of concerts anyway.
And I was fortunate enough to see Grateful Dead a lot during what for me was their peak era, from the late 60s through the late 70s. And then I got to play with them for all those years. So truthfully, when I go to shows, I go to shows that are a completely different kind of music. I'll go see Derek and Susan, or I'll go see Bonnie Rae, or something like that.
Larry (14:16.53)
Mm -hmm.
Larry (14:32.146)
Sure.
Dan Humiston (14:34.864)
I haven't felt the need to go see a dead body.
Larry (14:37.714)
Well, I have to tell you, we love Derek and Susan and we go to see that band as often as we can. And what's, you know, really amazing to me, and I've said to people before, if she wasn't standing next to Derek Trucks, we'd all be talking about Susan Tedeschi's guitar playing and everything. I mean, she's just, she's outstanding and he's just kind of sits over there and, you know, does what he does.
Dan Humiston (14:55.278)
I was a fan of hers before I was heavily aware of Derek. I'd seen Derek in the YouTube clips as a 12 year old kid or whatever blowing minds. But I wasn't really following the Allman Brothers. I hadn't really familiarized myself with what he did. And then in the last few years, holy crap.
Larry (15:07.218)
Right, sure.
Larry (15:18.034)
Yeah. Yeah.
Dan Humiston (15:19.726)
He was magical and the whole band, it's not just Derek and Susan, I mean the rhythm section, the arrangements, the songwriting, the recording quality of their new records. For my money, that's one of the better, maybe best, one of the best for sure, newer bands out there.
Larry (15:40.754)
Yeah, I would absolutely agree with you. We've seen them a number of times in a number of locations, caught up in Red Rocks a couple of summers ago, and that was wonderful. And yeah, they just, they really come at you with everything, and it is so creative. And I gotta tell you, Mark, my buddies and I, when we go to them, we like to try to sit up close, and we just sit there and stare at Derek the whole time. None of us play guitar, but it doesn't matter. I've seen enough guitar players in my day.
Dan Humiston (16:01.198)
I'm quite happy.
Larry (16:06.13)
you know that to see him and whatever that little motion is he's doing with his hand he doesn't look like he's picking he almost looks like he's playing a bass and it just what comes out of there and with no effort right he seems like he's sitting there talking to the guy next to him while he's doing it it's it's really great to see.
Dan Humiston (16:22.158)
Yeah, well, that's I mean, for me, that's a big ingredient in music. You know, it's it took me years to get to a point where I could even get close to that is that is the relaxed factor, you know, being comfortable with your own skin and not feeling like you need to. I've got to put out a lot of energy and I've got to impress everybody. And, you know, there's a lot of that in the music thing. And and it's nice when you can let go of that and just kind of go. I love my buddies and I love playing music, and that's all I'm thinking about.
Larry (16:52.594)
And you know, that's a great thing. And then you're right, that puts you in a really, really good position. And that's really wonderful. Let me ask you this, obviously, you know, feel free to take a hard pass, but you know, part of the show here, we talk about marijuana as well. You know, all the fans, you know, have their images of the guys and the dead and what they do and what they used to do and what they may or may not still be doing. When you started touring with them, what did you find that, you know,
Again, whatever degree you feel comfortable talking about it, but the people who listen to this show, I think, are pretty much in tune with this kind of stuff.
Dan Humiston (17:29.998)
Well, I think I would have to take the position of I'm happy to talk about my own relationship with cannabis and my own relationship to, you know, governmental policy and all of that kind of aspect of the cannabis situation. But I don't feel that it's my place to discuss somebody else's cannabis use or to try to express what their opinions are about something. It's not my it's not my place. You know, it's not my opinion.
Larry (17:37.682)
Sure.
Larry (17:57.106)
Fair enough. Let me ask the question this way. I'm a lawyer, so I learned how to dance around. Did you ever find yourself on stage with members of the other ones who might have been on a different visceral plane than you were on at that moment?
Dan Humiston (18:08.814)
Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, I, Bob would occasionally get into substances that I don't particularly do.
One of them being alcohol. You know, I don't drink. I used to drink a lot. One of my favorite sayings to say, tongue firmly planted in cheek, is I already drank my share and part of yours. So booze is not on my list of things to do. And actually, at the time that I joined the other ones, I was in year 13 or 14 of being 100 % clean and safe.
Larry (18:25.874)
Okay.
Larry (18:34.994)
Hahaha.
Dan Humiston (18:50.816)
and sober as in via 12 step. And a couple of years into it, I was like, you know, there's this amazing pot around the scene that didn't even exist when I stopped doing things. And pot was never my problem. My problem was cocaine and alcohol and I have no desire to go back to that and I still don't. And I started smoking pot again in 2000 and pretty much never looked back.
Larry (18:53.458)
Wow, very impressive.
Larry (19:13.97)
Sure.
Larry (19:17.618)
Okay.
Larry (19:21.01)
That's also one of the reasons why I ask and really, you know, from a musical perspective more, you know, we always hear now all the jam bands talk about it, right? But it really started with the dead. At least when I first heard about it and this idea of the musicians all on stage, kind of having a musical conversation with each other, right? They pick up a note, they pick up a chord change.
they pick up a slight difference in the tempo from the drummer and everybody knows kind of okay we're gonna go this way we're gonna go that way we're gonna do this one into that one and you know i think as you said before you know that's that's probably a a dynamic that you know over time becomes you know very embedded with those people and you know when you're somebody new in the group it may take you a little while to catch up to that
But as an outsider, I'm always curious as to whether the performers on the stage all being possibly on, this guy tried this tonight, this guy tried that tonight, this guy didn't try anything tonight. Does that interfere with that musical conversation, especially if you're one of the newer guys?
Dan Humiston (20:20.686)
You know, one of my least favorite phrases in the English language is one size fits all. And so that's a really, it's a next to impossible question to answer.
Larry (20:26.674)
Hehehehe
Larry (20:33.938)
Okay, fair enough.
Dan Humiston (20:34.382)
because it depends on what substance, who, on what night, and how that substance interacts with where they're at that day. There's so many factors in what either ends up creating or not creating that magical music space, most of which are, I think, kind of undefinable factors. And the reason I love to puff and play music is I find that it enhances my creativity.
And the two ways in which it does that is one way is that it tends to turn off my personal internal editor. I'm not as self -critical and as self -conscious as I am if I didn't puff. So that definitely helps in terms of just letting go and being creative. And then the other thing, and this is even more esoteric and I don't know how to get to it. I've been wanting to for decades.
is that I actually get a different flavor of musical idea when I am puffing than when I'm not. It's not to say I can't play music without it, but my improvisational thing definitely changes and I definitely prefer it. And I've had people say, you know, it's just because you're high, you think it sounds better. I've gone back and listened to the tapes. It's not that, it's real.
Larry (21:35.41)
-huh.
Larry (21:47.026)
Great.
Larry (22:01.97)
Right. Right. Well, I remember the stories about how Jerry would walk off stage convinced that whatever they had done was miserable. And then, you know, it would be the tapes that the deadheads coveted most of all.
Dan Humiston (22:10.35)
You're cutting in and out all of a sudden really badly.
Larry (22:14.546)
I'm sorry. I was saying that it reminds me of stories I read about Jerry, where he would come off stage convinced that they had really had a horrible night. And then, you know, the tapes that would show up and the deadheads would all, you know, covet those shows more than any other and thought, wow, they really sounded great. So, you know, sometimes a little bit of distance probably helps in that regard, too, huh?
Dan Humiston (22:37.55)
Yeah, well, I mean, there's an infamous story. I won't go into detail because it's a little sensitive, but suffice to say Jerry was not happy after a given show and like really not happy. And yet apparently it wound up being the basis for the lot that show that was in question wound up being the basis for the live track aspects of Anthem of the Sone.
Larry (23:05.842)
Wow. Okay. Sure.
Dan Humiston (23:07.246)
So yeah, the show that Jerry thought was awful was so good in hindsight that they wound up using it as the basis for that record, which was kind of a combination of live and studio.
Larry (23:18.546)
At what point, after you started playing with the other ones, did you feel like you were beginning to catch on to this musical conversation, that you were beginning to kind of get an idea of what was happening? Is there a learning curve? How does this work for somebody who's never really played with them before?
Dan Humiston (23:37.678)
Well, you know, I think that would depend on who you ask. For me, I felt like it was a fairly natural fit, you know, like listening to the music that was being played around me that I was playing with that had grown over 20 plus years from the music that I had been listening to in my preteen and early teen years.
You know, it felt like home to me. So, I mean, I remember, well, for example, I remember being at the initial audition and, you know, they pulled that sugar magnolia and I'm like, cool, I know this. And we played it and it went great. We pulled that, they pulled that friend of the devil. I'm cool. I know this and we played it and went great. And then they said, okay, well now we're going to do Shakedown. I was like, what's that? How does that go?
because I never heard it. That was after my time of listening to The Dead. And it's a trip because as the band developed, those songs that I grew up on, going to see when I was a kid and dropping acid and listening to and all of that.
Larry (24:31.666)
Ha ha ha ha.
Sure.
Dan Humiston (24:47.598)
they were burned in and I think probably my musical approach to those songs was probably a little bit more Jerry influenced because I had that period of time where I was listening to that stuff and pretty influenceable because I was on acid and stuff. And then there were the songs I never heard the Grateful Dead play. So I think I probably brought a little bit more of myself into those songs.
Larry (25:15.346)
Sure. You know, that's fascinating to me because obviously, well, not obviously for you, but for me, 79, 80, I was just beginning to discover the grit dead. And I went to my first dead show in 82. So, you know, stuff I, and we all love the older stuff, but you know, you had to be lucky. I was in Madison square garden one night and they pulled out St. Stephen in 1983 out of nowhere. You know, it was wonderful to hear, but otherwise, you know, all that stuff from back then was.
you could almost never catch it at the other one they would still continue to play in morning do maybe in a few others but you know i always wondered what it was like you know to be able to go to those shows back then and you know to hear that stuff but for us shake down street and terrapin and you know all that stuff were like the foundation of the shows that we were seeing and you know it now my i have a son who's thirty years old who obviously was he was four five when jerry died
but he and his buddies are big fish heads but they love the great full debt and they can't get enough of it and they listen to it and they dissected in it's just fascinating to me that where i'm at now with the grateful dead music in terms of its longevity in its impact on society i think it's fair to say like rivals what
we were all feeling about the Beatles 20 or 30 years ago, right? I mean, I was sitting in a restaurant the other day and they had Touch of Grey playing on in the background, very muted and soft, but playing. And I just chuckled to myself that half the people here have no idea what this song is. But you know, to them it's all very pleasant music. Nobody's getting up and asking them to change the music or anything like that. And it's on the sports, on the football playoffs as they're going in and out of commercials, they're paying.
playing Grateful Dead Clips. It's just amazing to see.
Dan Humiston (27:03.374)
Are you there?
Larry (27:04.434)
Yes.
Dan Humiston (27:05.87)
Okay, I was hearing everything you were saying and then you disappeared.
Larry (27:12.082)
Sorry, okay. But I was just talking about the longevity of the Grateful Dead music, right? And how I passed it already down to my son's generation and he has a child now and although she's not a year old, she's getting a lot of Grateful Dead music played to her and it's becoming part of our.
Dan Humiston (27:13.966)
No, no worries.
Larry (27:33.298)
normal soundtrack, right? You get on an elevator, you hear Beatles tunes, now you can get on an elevator and hear a Grateful Dead tune. Or, you know, when you're watching a sporting event, as they cut to a commercial, they go out on a Grateful Dead tune, and I just think that's so wonderful that, you know, of all the bands out there, that the dead and that music has persevered for so long, and people just keep falling in love with it. Do you find that?
Dan Humiston (27:59.086)
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. I don't know what else to say about that really, but yeah, I think that's true.
Larry (28:09.234)
Okay, well, when you're playing concerts and do you see a difference in fan reactions when you're playing Grateful Dead songs, let's say, as opposed to either songs you've written or other cover tunes?
Dan Humiston (28:21.966)
unquestionably. I mean, you know, if I had one thing that bums me out, and it's certainly not universally true, but I find that there's a fairly large chunk of the deadhead community that isn't very interested in hearing anything that isn't Grateful Dead. And I'm annoyed by that fact, that faction.
Because to me, that's the anti -Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead loved so many bands that two thirds of their material were cover songs from the bands that they loved. My feeling is, well, gosh, if they loved this enough to cover it, I want to go back and see what the original was all about. I want to see what they fell in love with. I don't want to only hear their version. You know? So.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say about that other than, you know, because I think the whole thing with the Dead was it was so cool was that everything prior to that band or at least the vast majority of music prior to that band was one style or another or yet another. And what the Dead did was they took elements of country, elements of rock, elements of folk, elements of blues, elements of jazz, the general approach of jazz.
Like, you know, you start with a head and you go to an improv and then you come back to a head Well with them you start with a song and go to an improv and come back to the song, you know So they had so many different influences and were so open to all kinds of music I I I really feel like you know to honor the essence of the Grateful Dead we as listeners and fans it to that legacy and to ourselves
from the perspective of wanting to be expansive people and be open to lots of things to really enjoy and internalize the Grateful Dead's music, but to also be really open to other stuff, to new stuff, to what's the next Grateful Dead, you know? That kind of thing. So to more specifically answer your question, absolutely. I have my own band. We play some Grateful Dead to honor my connection, and we play some Dead Friendly
Dan Humiston (30:40.064)
stuff because that's the stuff I grew up on a lot of Dylan in the band and that kind of thing but you know it's it's at least half original stuff or really obscure covers that means something to me and there are absolutely people that really like it but I would say that the majority of my deadhead friends and fans they they're much more inclined to come and see me when I'm playing at something that's grateful dead paced.
Larry (30:44.402)
Mm -hmm.
Larry (31:06.77)
Okay, I get that. I understand where that's coming from. We used to say that on any given night we'd be just as happy seeing the Jerry Garcia band as the Grateful Dead. I don't think we really meant it, but it seemed like a convenient thing to say, because we really loved seeing the Jerry Garcia band too. I agree, you can really get those different kind of tastes and whatever. I also have to say I strongly agree with your comment before. As a result of listening to the Grateful Dead, I've discovered...
not just other musicians i'd never heard of but depths of other musicians i mean i'd been listening to bob dylan but after hearing some of the dylan tunes of the dead regularly covered took me to places until it's on book i'm not sure i ever would have gotten to on my own and you know it's just just a wonderful thing to say while they're covering this to who is that and then you know to go try and figure it out and i and i i i love good cover to steal what a jam band is or any band is really interested in doing it and not just doing it
to kind of stir up the crowd when they go out there. Let me ask you this, Mark. Speaking of newer music, are there any of the newer jam bands that you tend to listen to or that you really like?
Dan Humiston (32:19.694)
It is depends on what your definition of jam band is. I mean, I feel like Derek and Susan stretch. I don't know that they qualify as a jam band in the traditional sense of the word. And to be honest with you, most of the bands that are out there that I've been officially do qualify, I haven't really connected with. You know, again, it's a...
Larry (32:25.362)
Yep. yeah.
Larry (32:40.914)
Good.
Dan Humiston (32:43.182)
There's no one size fits all. I don't think that there's good bands and bad bands. I think there's bands that we like and bands that we don't like and everybody's lists are going to be different, you know?
I admire several of the bands, especially some of the ones that have been around since 25 years ago when I started doing the other ones. The String Cheeses and the Mo's and all that. They're wonderful bands and I've even had the pleasure of playing with some of them. I don't gravitate towards listening to them. I think when I'm listening, I tend to lean towards stuff that's a little bit more...
blues, R &B, Americana, that kind of stuff. And if they happen to stretch, well, that just makes it all that much better if they jam a little bit on top of all that.
Larry (33:35.634)
Okay. I've gotten in touch with a lot of these newer bands primarily because my kids listen to them and so they've pulled me into it. So my older son has become a big Phish fan so now I go and see Phish shows with him. They love Goose so I've gone to see Goose with them. Daniel Donato and just all of these great young bands that are coming up as well. Phish I guess isn't that young really but.
you know it's just alternatives and it's wonderful to see you know i i think it's what you were saying before it's it's a it there there's a feeling behind the music it's not just the music you're hearing right but it's what the musicians are bringing to the table in the spirit that they embody and the freedom that they play with that you know that's what really struck a chord with me with the grateful debt early on i grew up in
st louis which was a pretty good music town but not like growing up in new yorker san francisco and you know we tended to drift towards the more traditional seventies bands like chicago and boston and ario speed wagon and then we saw the who and out seeing the who opened up a world for me than the rolling stones took me to the next level than the grateful dead to the next level and
You know, it's just wonderful to still be discovering bands out there that, you know, I wasn't really listening to that much a few years ago and have now come to occupy, you know, a major spot in my music rotation that I listen to.
Dan Humiston (35:01.454)
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. I mean...
I guess, you know, the other thing that I have to be aware of is I am actually 69 years old. So it's not a huge surprise to me that most of the music that I gravitate towards is older music. It's stuff that I came up on. You know, I've always felt like, you know, a lot of new music is being made for younger people. If I don't relate to it, that's okay. I'm not the target audience.
Larry (35:13.01)
Mm -hmm.
Larry (35:34.866)
What's on your current playlist? If you get on the plane and you're going to sit there and listen to your song list, what songs will pop up on Mark Karen's current playlist?
Dan Humiston (35:45.486)
You're not going to like the answer. Basically mixes and mastering of my new record, the songs that I need to be studying and learning lines from for the Gilmore Project or for Live Dead and Brothers.
Larry (36:01.458)
Sure.
Dan Humiston (36:02.862)
Most of what I listen to musically has become, on some level, my work. So the truth is, and this is odd for me to say because I'm the guy that always had music playing constantly 24 -7, I'm not the guy as much anymore. I occasionally buy a new CD and I'll listen to it, but most of my music listening winds up being the stuff that I'm working with and working on. And sometimes, I'm not.
I play a lot, you know, so sometimes as bizarre as it may be to say, I want to get away from you, I want to watch a movie or something.
Larry (36:42.29)
Sure, I totally get that. So tell me a little bit about Live Dead and Brothers.
Dan Humiston (36:49.358)
well, it's a new band. We just had our first tour And we were kind of ridiculously well received. I was very very happy with how that all went down It's a it sort of grew out of the ashes of live dead 69 which was a band that we had together that was essentially myself and Slick Aguilar from the Jefferson Starship and Tom Constanton
from the original Grateful Dead, with kind of a floating cast of characters on bass and drums. And, you know, we did okay with it for quite a while, and then we hadn't worked it for a while, and our manager and conceptual guy got this idea of marrying the almonds and the dead and kind of doing a mashup approach rather than doing one or the other. And I really liked that. And in the process of putting it together,
He stumbled across Les Dudek who was the guy that actually played the guitar on Ramblin' Man, he played rhythm guitar on Jessica. He was quite popular in his day when the Allman Brothers were peaking. And so we have him on guitar along with me and we have Barry Oakley Jr., Barry Oakley's son playing bass and doing a lot of the vocals and he's fabulous.
Larry (38:10.738)
Wow.
Larry (38:14.578)
That's just amazing, you know, to capture that next generation too. I, you know, right? Like John Bonham's kid drums now for, you know, whoever he's to who or whoever he's drumming for these days. But I love that generational kind of thing. Sure.
Dan Humiston (38:25.614)
There's Jason Bottom, there's Zack Starkey, there's Chris Stills. There's a lot of next generation musicians that are the offspring of our heroes and a lot of them are very, very good at what they do.
Larry (38:41.554)
Absolutely. I was talking to somebody the other day. We just saw the Sam Grisman project and I was so impressed with that. I thought that was just wonderful. And so the other is really just, it was really, you know, I, you know, we love fill in all of that, but I don't always necessarily wind up focusing on the bass instrument when I, you know, I was always a guitar guy, a drum guy.
Dan Humiston (38:50.606)
I haven't seen it yet but I've heard nothing but great reports.
Larry (39:06.034)
But he's sitting there playing, whether it's the electric bass or his big stand -up bass, and he's just having a ball with it, and what comes out of it's amazing.
Really impressive.
Dan Humiston (39:14.606)
Yeah, well, I've...
see that man. You know, I have to admit I need to kick myself in the ass and get out more. I tend to be a little isolating. I need to get out some more shows.
Larry (39:31.25)
We all do. I mean, I'm excited because in a couple of weeks, we're going to catch Neil Young is coming through with Crazy Horse. And we just read the reviews of the California shows. And I'm as excited to see that as I've been to see any concert in a long time.
Dan Humiston (39:47.566)
I'd love to see some crazy horse.
Larry (39:50.61)
So that'll be it. Now I understand, Life, Dead, and Brothers, you're headed my way. You're coming to the Midwest now, aren't you?
Dan Humiston (39:57.39)
Where are you?
Larry (39:58.674)
Chicago.
Dan Humiston (40:00.782)
Yeah, I mean, I'm flying out there tomorrow morning. Not technically Chicago, though. We're doing guest planes in St. Charles.
Larry (40:03.794)
Excellent.
Larry (40:08.754)
Yep, a little bit out, but not that far away. Well, that'll be fantastic. So one show each night in each of the communities.
Dan Humiston (40:18.286)
I'm sorry, can you say that again?
Larry (40:19.986)
Yeah, you're playing in both communities, one show in one and then one show in the other.
Dan Humiston (40:25.486)
Yeah, well, we're at the Arcade Theater, which I believe is the one in Des Plaines. Let me look. Let's see here. no, the Arcade Theater is the one in St. Charles, and the Des Plaines Theater is the one in Des Plaines.
Larry (40:39.762)
Okay.
Wonderful. Wow, well that's exciting. Now I have to go home and check with the wife and see if I'm free to be able to go.
Dan Humiston (40:46.222)
Yeah, that's this Friday and Saturday.
Dan Humiston (40:52.11)
There you go.
Larry (40:54.642)
That would be wonderful. That would be a lot of fun. Hey, we're talking about the almonds. A couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the passing of Dicky Betts. Did you ever have a chance to play with him?
Dan Humiston (41:06.318)
I did, yeah. Yeah, a couple times. That was definitely a three.
Larry (41:09.49)
What was that like? He just seemed like such an amazing free spirit up there.
Dan Humiston (41:14.062)
Great guitar player. I didn't get to hang with him or talk much. You know, he just kind of came out and played and and was gone, you know
So, but yeah, it was a rush. I mean, that's one thing about being with RADDOG that was really amazing. The number of people, the number of my personal heroes that I got to play with, you know, Little Feet and, you know, just a lot of really, really, really great musicians that I probably would never have had any chance to connect with otherwise.
Larry (41:45.266)
And that's right, I mean, it seems like all these conglomerations of guys get together, you know, and I look at it and think, you know, after a while it's like old home week, right? The guys you've played with or the guys you really wanted to meet, you know, it must be a wonderful thing. I was at a show in Chicago one night seeing Steely Dan, and right in the middle of the show I see some guy walking back out the aisle to go to the bathroom, and it was Warren Haynes. And I turned to my wife, I go, yeah, I guess these guys like to go out too.
Dan Humiston (42:07.822)
there you go. Yeah?
I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Warren's a case unto himself. I call him the hardest working man in the show business. I don't think he ever takes a night off.
Larry (42:14.322)
I figure if I'm in a show and Warren Haynes is there too.
Larry (42:24.498)
I think you're right and what I love about him is how over a course of five nights he can play with five completely different bands with five different styles and be on top of it every single night.
Dan Humiston (42:37.742)
Absolutely. Yeah, he's here. That goes back to what I was talking about before about a collective tastes, you know, he doesn't just do one thing. He likes lots of different things. I mean, that whole collective thing for me comes to I mean, you can even make a metaphor to to or an analogy or whatever to food. You know, I love a good rib eye bone in steak, but I don't want to for dinner every single night.
Larry (43:02.706)
Right, of course.
especially as you get to be our age, you're 69, well, I'm in the same decade with you for right now at least. So yeah, that's one of the lessons, right? You have the younger kids and they sit there and they eat like we used to and there's a part of my brain that tells me I still can and I'm sure that puffing a little bit before dinner doesn't help temper that at all. But yeah, we have to be careful about what we're doing these days but that's a very good analogy and I would agree with that.
Dan Humiston (43:30.99)
Yeah, and I'm talking about less of a health consideration and more just that, you know, variety is the spice of life. I might love a steak, but I might want Mexican food once in a while, or some Indian food, or a quiche, or whatever, you know?
Larry (43:45.138)
Yep, no, no, no, right, you do have to go for that variety. And there were certainly times when, in the midst of all the dead stuff, where my sense, like I missed the whole beginning of bands like Phish and practically missed Nirvana because we were so.
at least me and my buddies were so tied into the dead that we didn't make room for everything else. And as devastated, if you want to use that word, as we were about Jerry dying, one of the things was all of a sudden I had a lot more time and money that I wasn't spending on dead tickets to go see other bands and hear other live music and really opening up a lot of other avenues. And friends who are very good at referring us to places and bands to see that us folks here in the Midwest may not have heard about.
Dan Humiston (44:32.43)
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, exactly. And that basically is the essence of what I was saying before about, you know, people get so wrapped up into the dead, or any one band. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I'm not trying to say fall about the dead. I mean, if the only band you ever listened to was The Beatles, it'd be the same thing. It's like, there's other stuff out there, and it's really good. You know?
Larry (44:55.89)
Right, no doubt. But I think for a lot of us, the first time you get on the bus with the dead, there's that initial period where it just sucks you in. And that's kind of what builds that for life love of the band and everything. And I'll admit, some people probably handle it better than I did. But boy, once I started seeing them, there was a long period of time I just wasn't interested in anything else. But yeah, it's now, variety is the spice of life.
One of my sons decided that he and a college buddy of his were gonna each week pick a different band to listen to until they had covered as many bands out there as they could. And I'd be feeding them names of bands that I loved when I was growing up and then it got to the point where we'd have to really put down and sit down and think, God, what band haven't they listened to yet? And it's kinda cool that way, for me to be reintroduced to it and for them to be introduced to it for the first time. And the other line I use is,
when in my dad's house in St. Louis where I grew up, he had a big, huge cabinet where he kept his TV and his stereo and everything that was filled with records. There's not a single record in his record collection that I ever listened to, that I ever wanted to listen to, right? Whereas my kids go through my records all the time and now they all wanna listen to my dead stuff and other stuff like that. To me, that's just something wonderful about.
rock and roll music or you know modern music or whatever you want to call it not even just jam band but right all of this is is so well received and and we're at an age now where you know i've been listening to this music you know as long as my dad had been listening to that other music when i was a kid and you know this music just keeps getting better and better and stronger and stronger and it's a wonderful experience out there so here's what i really want to ask you though
you're 69, you're turning 70, you're going on tour now, you're playing your shows. Phil just had his 84th birthday party and was at the Capitol Theater again, right, for three nights or with two or three good long sets each night. And that guy's 84 and Mick Jagger's touring right now and he's 80 and he's running up and down the stage. This was like the generation of musicians that nobody could live past 27 and that everybody, all the drug use.
Dan Humiston (47:09.006)
Thank you.
Larry (47:16.626)
back in the day was so strong and you guys are just, I mean, kicking ass. You're going strong. You're playing better than ever. What's the secret behind that?
Dan Humiston (47:26.126)
Hell, I don't know.
Larry (47:30.642)
Okay?
Dan Humiston (47:31.054)
to them and be a millionaire.
Larry (47:33.618)
right. But I mean, you still find yourself waking up on most days and saying, I love playing live music.
Dan Humiston (47:40.654)
Yeah, absolutely. No question about it.
Larry (47:42.962)
That's a wonderful thing. I have to tell you, when we first started seeing The Dead, and given what our experience was with life expectancies for rock and rollers and guys like that, we all couldn't imagine that 40 years later, we would not only still be listening to Grateful Dead music, but we'd still be seeing original members of the Grateful Dead performing it.
And the fact that it's all lived on this long and everything else just makes it amazing. And it must be pretty cool for a guy like you to find yourself becoming part of that history and becoming part of that. You're woven into the fabric, right? I mean, from now back to when I saw the other ones for the first time, that's longer than when I first saw the dead, before they even started playing. And here it is just getting better and better.
Dan Humiston (48:35.566)
Yeah, no, I hear you. I definitely hear you. And it doesn't seem to be showing much signs of slowing down.
Larry (48:43.73)
No, I mean, do you keep in touch with guys like Bobby and Phil?
Dan Humiston (48:48.878)
I know, to be honest, I would, but I'd never hear from them, you know?
Larry (48:53.81)
Right, right, right, because of course the whole deadhead world needs to know everything. What do you think about the new sphere in Las Vegas?
Dan Humiston (49:01.486)
I don't have anything to think about it. It's not my cup of tea. I'm not so much into big spectacle. I'm into intimate. I'd rather go see a band in a small venue where I'm right up in their face and I can really feel their vibe and have an intimate experience. I'm not so much into being blown away by a giant spectacle.
Larry (49:23.602)
See, I understand that and I can relate to that. I kind of started seeing the dead right at a crossroads when they were, the popularity of the late 60s through late 70s had kind of died down a little bit. It was a few years before the whole touch of Gray thing. And it wasn't uncommon to go to shows that were not sold out.
you know and i would see them and we we get right up close and really experience it and after i'd been seeing them for about a year or so jerry came through the st louis area played a band called stages over in the east st louis area you'll talk to one of my buddies into driving over there with me there was a big long line we got in and everybody in front of us ran up to the bar and i just walked right up to the front of the stage and sat stood ten feet away from jerry garcia all night
Dan Humiston (49:46.606)
Right. Right.
Larry (50:14.418)
just experiencing the whole thing. And it's a lot different than the later years when you'd have to get a ticket in Soldier Field and you were lucky if you could see the band with your binoculars.
Dan Humiston (50:15.054)
first.
Dan Humiston (50:24.494)
Exactly, exactly. I was, you know, it's not about the dead or the not dead. I was never into the really big shows, you know. I would go because sometimes it was the only way I could see a certain band, but they've never been my favorite. Hey listen, we've been at this for almost an hour and I really do need to get my car to the mechanic before I leave on tour. So...
Larry (50:31.698)
I agree.
Larry (50:46.738)
Well, we do not want to stop you. And as I say, we so much appreciate the time you've taken to talk with us today, Mark. Just so you know, on our way out in a couple of minutes, we're going to be playing Rodeo, a clip that was sent to us today. Can you just tell us about, is that on an album?
Dan Humiston (51:05.87)
It will be. I have one record, well actually I have two records out. One you can't get anymore and one you actually can but I don't know for how much longer because I've got a bunch of copies left but when those are gone the record will be gone. But I've been in the process of working on a second full release for quite a while and we're now in the process of final mastering and figuring out how I want to market it because these days it's a giant question mark.
Larry (51:19.634)
Okay.
Dan Humiston (51:35.824)
Do you do a whole album? Do you sell them as singles? Do you sell them at all? Do you just post them? I don't know how that works anymore. I come from a different era where you actually made records with the intent of selling them.
Larry (51:50.418)
understood will listen where will will play that on the way out but thank you so much this is really been fascinating i've got about six pages of notes and i've barely gotten through half of the first page so you know it's
Dan Humiston (52:01.422)
Well, maybe we can do it again sometime. I'm sorry that I have this other thing. Most of the other interviews I've done have been somewhere in the vicinity of 20 minutes. So I'm fine with this, but I didn't realize that we were going to go for so long. So I apologize if I have to leave.
Larry (52:07.25)
No.
Larry (52:16.946)
no, please. Thank you. Thank you so much. Have a safe travels. Have a wonderful tour. If I can find the magic words and get the magic ticket, I may pop over and see you this weekend.
Dan Humiston (52:29.262)
Right on. Okay, well let me know if you need to be on the guest list or something.
Larry (52:33.234)
Thank you, Mark. That's a wonderful offer. Thank you again for being on our show and good luck with everything. We will be in touch. Everyone, Mark Karen, thank you, sir. Mark Karen, what a wonderful...
Dan Humiston (52:41.166)
Thank you.
Dan Humiston (52:44.878)
You're starting to look a little bit silly.
Larry (52:47.25)
guest how nice to come and give us this time and I just love those stories right. I mean here's a guy how humble is he. He's up there playing with our heroes and our legends his heroes and legends and he's killing it and just doing a good job. I love how active and involved he is in so many different areas of music like Live Dead and the Brothers for instance and we didn't have a chance to talk about Mark Cairns Buds and Jeremiah Puddleduck and you know just all these other conglomerations out there where he's out making
live music and you know what I like his answer, he's making live music for everyone. If it appeals to the deadheads all the better and music from a guy like him I think on most instances is gonna appeal to a lot of us deadheads and so it's great to have a chance to talk to him. One of the things I will just touch on really fast here as we get towards the end but I wanna just get into a little bit of cannabis news that we have today. Not a whole lot but a little and certainly some stuff that's working.
worth talking about. The first one I think goes under the category of, well, isn't this interesting? Marijuana seizures at the US Mexico border continue to fall as more states legalize federal data shows. So we find as the state marijuana legalization movement continues to expand, seizures of cannabis at southern borders declined in 2023 according to data from US Customs and Border Protection. The latest figures show agents intercepted roughly 61 ,000 pounds of cannabis in the region, a 29 %
drop from the year before. The new numbers represent an ongoing decline in illicit marijuana seizures by border agents as more U .S. state legalization laws come online. In 2022, CBD, the Customs and Border Protection authorities seized 150 ,000.
pounds of cannabis nationwide, 155 ,000 pounds of cannabis nationwide, about half of the 319 ,500 pounds that were seized the year before. Advocates for legalization say the data from the southern border is further evidence that state regulated markets are shrinking demand for imported Mexican marijuana. When it comes to cannabis, the prevailing attitude is by America. Normal Deputy Director Paul Armantano said in a statement about the trend, the rise of the regulated state legal cannabis market has not only supplanted America's
Larry (55:04.516)
demand for Mexican cannabis, but in many places this has also disrupted the unregulated domestic marketplace. And as he
often is on these issues, Paul is right on, and I agree with him. I think this is wonderful because when legalization was first talked about, we continued to hear stories about how there would just be more and more black markets and it would continue to pour across the border because with taxes and everything else and all of that, this other marijuana, the stuff from Mexico, would still have a strong market in the US. And I think it's a credit to those folks who are out growing the marijuana and selling the marijuana.
with licenses in the United States that they've been able to come up with products that for the most part I think have been good enough and priced reasonably enough so that people, even if they're paying a little bit extra, probably are much more comfortable buying it from a legal place and conducting a legal transaction. And that's to be expected.
and not to say that they're still a very strong you know darker market in the united states with a lot of california grows a lot of colorado growers a lot of washington and oregon growers who
have discovered, you know, for better or for worse, that they have markets located outside of their respective states and there's a high demand for that level and quality of marijuana as well. But, you know, to me, the significance of this is it's just yet another instance of taking one of the major talking points of the prohibitionists and kind of saying, nope, you were wrong about this too. You can keep coming up with scare tactics. You can keep coming up with bullshit reasons. But at the end of the day, bullshit is bullshit.
Larry (56:46.034)
And when you have something like marijuana where the demand is so great, and we talked about Kansas and their patronizing attitudes that people don't really know what they're talking about. And so this was a Marijuana Moment article, thank you guys. Now we're gonna switch over to MJ Biz Daily for a minute, and we're gonna dive into the light a little bit more because in Florida, Florida Republicans are officially opposing adult use cannabis legislation. Everybody who said they were gonna support it raised their hand. Nobody? Okay, good.
Their opposition to adult use legalization in Florida has been long presumed and now it's official. According to the Florida Phoenix, the executive board of the Republican Party of Florida voted at its recent quarterly meeting to oppose amendment three, which would legalize recreational marijuana sales in the state. It's among six constitutional amendments that will go before Florida voters in November. So significant to remember here, the legislators who we're talking about in this article, who all say they oppose it, they get no vote in this other than their one vote as a registered Florida voter.
It's going to be up to the people in the state of Florida to vote on this and we will see if the will of the people can overcome the absolute insanity that sometimes passes for state government in the state of Florida. In a statement released Monday, GOP board chair Evan Power described the adult use initiative as an unnecessary attempt by an increasingly shrinking minority who know the only way to win support for their radical agenda is to confuse and mislead the electorate. Anyone who thought that a Republican said that
that you win. Of course that's what he's going to say. An increasingly shrinking minority of who? Marijuana smokers? You're not paying attention to the news, Evan. You're not following what's going on out there. You're opening up your mouth and you're saying nonsense, which is not uncommon, unfortunately, for many Republicans to whom facts just aren't relevant. And we see it over and over again in the marijuana industry. That's not to say that all Democrats are all truthful up and down the line, but we just don't see the level of election denialism and QAnon nonsense.
that just keeps getting perpetrated deeper and deeper and deeper. And some guy like Evan Power who's gonna sit here and tell us that adult use is an increasingly unnecessary attempt by an increasingly shrinking minority. Now maybe he's talking about the Democrats shrinking, I don't know, although they still control the Senate right now. So who knows exactly who he's talking about. But then of course he has to throw in the old quote unquote radical agenda. What radical agenda are we talking about here? People who wanna be able to safely and legally use the substance that's been around
Larry (59:15.396)
for 5 ,000 years, Evan.
Can you think of anything else that's been around for 5 ,000 years that people are still using? Well, I guess maybe alcohol. And you know, something you probably like too, Evan, unfortunately. That's something that we do have a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about because they'll sit there and they'll drink alcohol all day and pretend like it's not hurting them while it's destroying their liver, while it's destroying their bodies, while it's destroying everything. And you know what doesn't destroy your body that way, Evan? Marijuana. So, you know, we also have adult use opponents, including Florida Governor Ron DeSantis contends.
There is no need to legalize recreational marijuana because the state's medical cannabis program, the largest in the nation with more than 880 ,000 patients, is already so strong. Which again, of course, completely misses the point and is something that somebody who doesn't really understand the issue but sees it as a left -leaning issue and so therefore is knee -jerk against it. Somebody who believes that, this is something that they would say. There is a difference between a medical cannabis program and an adult use cannabis program.
In a medical cannabis program, you must go to a doctor and depending on the particular requirements of that state, you need some sort of written confirmation, either confirmation that you have the qualifying condition or confirmation that you have the qualifying condition and the doctor thinks this would help you or whatever the state requires the doctor to write. The primary reason people go for medical cannabis programs these days is because in most states, you don't pay the state tax.
So in states like Illinois, that can mean a difference of almost 25 % in terms of what you're paying for the product you walk out the door with. So for some people, there is motivation to continue to try to go and get a medical cannabis card. But you really have it backwards. If that program is so strong and working so well,
Larry (01:01:04.37)
and you don't have a bunch of people running around the towns like crazies and driving cars off of roads and destroying grocery stores and littering Cheetos containers all over the street. Then what it must mean, Governor, is that the citizens of your state are intelligent enough to know how to deal with marijuana when it's been presented to them as a medical alternative, which means that there's probably a pretty good chance that they'll know how to deal with it on any scale that you give it to them. And you know what? For those people that don't know how to handle it, well, then they're going to find out.
out just like people who don't know how to handle their alcohol, what happens? You've got almost a million people who are already medical. You change to adult use. You're not losing those people and you're gaining so many more. You're gaining so many more and you're bringing in so much money for your state. And DeSantis is one of those guys who desperately needs financial assistance in his state, but he's very picky and choosy about where he gets it, right? He won't take federal funds that are going to all the states because that's his principle that the federal government can't afford to do it and we shouldn't be doing it even though he's not.
a federal government official and nobody asked him for his opinion on federal government approach. But the point is screw it, let it come in. Why are you worried about it? Are you just knee -jerking against it? Because when you were in college you had a bad experience with it, because the other kids teased you because you wouldn't try it. Who knows why? Because leftists like it, but we've talked about
Right? We're not the only ones. Tucker Carlson likes it. Ann Coulter likes it. As far as I could tell, George W. Bush liked it. You know, it seems to me that there's a lot of public figures who like it, Ron. So you don't have to. Nobody's saying you have to like it. But don't act like an idiot when it comes to telling other people what they can and cannot do with something as benign as cannabis. OK? You allow.
alcohol to be sold, you allow drinks with caffeine there to be sold, you allow tobacco products to be sold in your state. So don't come back and talk to us about marijuana somehow being any different or any more potentially dangerous or whatever excuse one of your PR people can sit down and think up about, well, the medical program is already going so well, we don't have to worry about it. Well, that's wrong, you do. And maybe someday,
Larry (01:03:17.97)
they'll all come around and learn or maybe they won't you know whether that has any ultimate impact on them i don't know you know in a few years florida might be underwater anyway so the whole thing might be a moot point as far as they're concerned nevertheless we have what we have
So that's our marijuana news for the day, not very much because as it was, we weren't even able to get a full hour with Mark. He gave us as much time as he could and we really appreciated it. So next week we'll be back. Well, actually that's not true at all. Next week we have another wonderful guest on our show. Everybody's favorite photographer and one of our favorite fans of the show, Jay Blakesburg is going to be coming on and he's got a bunch of stuff to talk about. Photo exhibits going on everywhere. He's setting up shop in Las Vegas for the whole time that Den and Company are going to be at the Sphere.
He purchased this big surprise bundle of stuff from Dan Healy with backstage passes and old programs and guitar picks and who the hell knows what else is in there. Tour books and just amazing stuff.
that he's now going to turn around and hopefully be able to make available to the public. And there's one thing we know about Jay Blakesburg is he's always got something to talk about. So do not miss next week's show. That's going to be a lot of fun. And we're really, really looking forward to that. I want to say thank you one more time to Mark Karen, our guest today. What a wonderful conversation we had. Love his take on music and on drugs and just about everything in the rock and roll world that came up. And it sounds like he's going strong. And if you ever have a chance to see him,
C -mark you should do so I saw him for the first time with the other ones in 1998 and I can tell you that I was as big a Jerry fan as ever existed and although we all miss Jerry terribly nobody really walked out of there feeling like boy the guitar players really sucked or they somehow stole you know they took the show away from us
Larry (01:05:08.594)
they were great you know they were fine they were very very sturdy and he is to come back or well known in the grateful dead world and well known by dead heads and fans everywhere as guys who are despite what they may say more than suitable fill in the software jerry garcia when the rest of the gang wants to get together and jam like the the good old days so thank you to mark if you can doubt listen to any his music please do and you're really really enjoy it
We are going to go out with a final tune today. It's called Rodeo. It's an original by Mark Karen. As he indicated, it might be coming out on an album sometime soon. And if it does, you'll want to run out and grab it right away. In the meantime, you can find it on YouTube and places like that, wherever you go to download your music. So please enjoy that as we leave. Otherwise, folks, the weather's getting nice outside. So have a great week. Hopefully you've got some live music in your mix. Hopefully you've got time to sit down and enjoy a little cannabis.
And as always, if you do so, please do it responsibly. Thank you. We'll talk to you all next week.